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Thinking about a \"Ban Free\" AR15

Impact gun's marketing of "Ban Free" guns has triggered my appetite for an AR15. Should the ban sunset, which one to get the standard set-up, or the shorty carbine? How about brands, Colt, Bushmaster, Armalite, etc.?

Midi, or anyone with expertise for these fine guns -- your input will be appreciated.
 

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It depends on what you want to do with it...
For maximum effectiveness and accuracy, get the full-length 20 in. barrel.
For portability, get the M-4 style.
As for brands... right now I think the Bushmaster is as well or better built than the Colt, although it's very close. I'd definitely get one of the two over any other.
Speaking personally, I like the standard full-sized A2 format. The shorty versions tend to blow back unburnt powder in my face, and aren't as comfortable to shoot well. Remember, although it's considered "Full-Sized", it's really not that big at all!
Flyer
 
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Well after having both, I prefer the full size. It really is not that much bigger and the advantages that it offers are greater. Unless you were going to use the rifle for CQB, I would say to get the full size. Once you have the rifle it is easy to convert it over to whichever size that you want.
 

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I'm right there with you flyandscuba... I think Santa is going to be good to me this year with an original configuration Bushmaster. I hope he gets here before December -- ultimately I would like it delivered Sep. 14.
 

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question

i know next to nothing about these rifles. would you pick the ar15 type over the ak 74 rifle?
 

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would you pick the ar15 type over the ak 74 rifle?
From Spider-Man 2:
Jonah Jameson: "Tomorrow night, 8 o'clock."
Peter Parker: "Any chance I could get an advance?"
JJ: "Hmph..mph... hahahahahahahahahahahah!!! Hahahahahaaha.... ha... ha... uh.. what, are you
serious? Tomorrow night, the Planetarium, 8 o'clock. There's the door!!!"
Er... sorry... I've got Spidey on the brain.
The AK-74 is simply the AK-47 chambered for the 5.45x39mm cartridge. It's flatter shooting and a little more accurate than the standard AK, but nowhere NEAR the league of an AR-15.
Having said that, I'll now say I have a ball just blastin' away with my 74! It's one of the only rifles I own I'll feed Wolf ammo. For a plinking/fun rifle, it's great. But for serious business, stick with the AR.
Flyer
 

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Having spoken with many, many veterans of the "Southeast Asian Wargames for Wayward Youth" (SAWWY, aka VietNam), and a good number of veterans of Gulf War I and Gulf War II, one of the recurring themes that I hear is that the AK47 is darn near indestructible, that you can bury it in sand or mud, rinse it off in a muddy pool of water, and resume firing as if it didn't matter. Further, my father, also a SAWWY vet, frequently mentions what a POS the M16A1 was, how unreliable it was, how it jammed & misfired frequently, to the point that he refused to carry it, and instead carried a sawed-off Winchester 12-ga pump in the bush. And in case anyone should suggest that he wasn't keeping it clean enough, you're wrong -- he was extremely meticulous with his weapons, both because his life depended on it and because he is the son of a WWII vet who taught him the proper care, cleaning, and handling of rifles. Further, that argument supports my logic, that the AKs need little more than a basic bore cleaning and some lube, where the ARs are more finicky about being clean and completely lubed. ARs may be nice match guns, but I think if I had to pick one or the other to actually fight with, I'd go with the AK. I know modern ARs are better, but the AK still has the appeal of being extremely rugged and reliable.
 

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Almost all the combat-related criticisms occured when the M-16 was used with the improper powder for it's gas system. This often clogged the gas tube so badly that, even if the rifle was kept clean enough to eat off of, it'd still fail to function properly.
This isn't the case, anymore, and WASN'T the case for too long in 'Nam. My cousin was trotting around the jungles there in 1970-71, and never, EVER had problems with his rifle. He's always responded to the anti-AR folks with a healthy "Bull****".
Ask an Iraqi insurgent if he'd like to trade his brand-new AK for an M-16 and the AK would be tossed away like it was on fire.
In fact, the M-16 is the ENVY of most of the world's militaries.
One really look no further than the Israeli testing for their new combat rifle years ago to learn the truth...
The only two rifles that passed their rigorous desert torture testing (and they tested EVERYTHING) were the M-16 and AK. The AK, though, proved not to be satisfactorily accurate. So, they came up with the rifle they envisioned as the ultimate combat rifle, the Galil.
This combined the gas system of the AK with an M-16-like locking system.
In subsequent tests, and as actually issued, the Galil STILL regularly got it's butt kicked by the M-16.
Look closely at the rifles Israli soldiers are carrying in the next newsclip you see... it's VERY likely an M-16, and they purchased the rights to manufacture the rifle from Colt.
There's no doubt about it, at all... the AR-15/M-16 reigns supreme the world over.
Flyer
 

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lol, that like asking an insurgent "hey, you wanna trade that beat up old Daewoo for this Alfa Romeo?" (or Maserati, Cadillac, Audi, whatever car floats your boat)
Of course someone's gonna pick a 600 Dollar AR as opposed to a 200 dollar AK! But for those who don't have the money to buy an AR, the AK will get you there, albeit with less style
 

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I don't know enough about either rifle to say much about the problem you mentioned, Flyer, with the wrong powder being used, or other problems, but I can say that my dad's tour in 'Nam was '69-'70, so either he had an older rifle or the problem wasn't fully fixed at that point.
I will say this much -- the AR is much easier on the eyes than the AK. AKs aren't quite coyote ugly, but not far off -- I'd probably kick it out of bed if I found one in bed with me. Finding an AR in bed with ya, however, could be equated to waking up next to a mostly nekkid Cindy Crawford.
 

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Speaking of Daewoo, they have the best features of both.

In .223 I have more fun shooting the Daewoo than my Bushmaster but I'm not a serious precision shooter. My Bushmaster V match carbine is minute of angle.
 

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There is a simple solution to the AR versus AK question -- get one of each. Which I will, but the AR comes first.
 

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Re:

madman said:
Further, my father, also a SAWWY vet, frequently mentions what a POS the M16A1 was, how unreliable it was, how it jammed & misfired frequently, to the point that he refused to carry it.
It's a well known story, documented masterfully on the History Channel... the problems were ALL caused by the military making design changes to the gun that ran contrary to what the designer (Stoner) recommended and then rushing them into the battlefield with little or no training and the ridiculous assertion that the rifles were "self cleaning", hence... no cleaning kits. Once they stepped back, corrected the problems (ie. went back to the original designer's specs in terms of both the weapon AND the ammunition) it worked just fine and still does. You go stand 500 yards away from me with your AK and we'll trade shots. You can have the first one. We'll see who falls first.
 

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Re:

Bulbman said:
Of course someone's gonna pick a 600 Dollar AR as opposed to a 200 dollar AK!
Where can you find either at those prices?
 

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$800

akron armory has ak74's that they want $799 for. that's why i posed the question in the first place. :shock:
 

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Re:

TxCajun said:
Bulbman said:
Of course someone's gonna pick a 600 Dollar AR as opposed to a 200 dollar AK!
Where can you find either at those prices?
That's about what the government would pay. For us non dictator types, yeah its gonna be 800+
 

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Price check

I stopped by the gun store today to do some browsing while my wife was at the doctor ... they have a Bushmaster AR-15 for $799. Is that a good deal? Is it about right? I want to wait until post-AWB so I can get the M-4 style stock on it. (Or should I get it now and then buy the stock later on?) Any other options that I should be aware of for post-ban purchases?
 

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You can find an AR15 for less than $600 if you look.

$250 complete RRA lower (local gun show new)
$115 RRA enhanced carrier group with charging handle (AR15.com new)
$110 Air Force M16A1 upper (AR15.com like new used)

Total $475 and it groups about 1moa with XM193
 

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I am working to have CMMG refit my clintonized Bushmaster into a NO ban rifle.

I also plan to have them supply me with a complete 16" carbine upper, later to be mated to one of their lowers.
As the money comes rolling in....... :lol:
 
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