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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Actually, it's Flyer to the defense... of the Beretta!
The Tomcat is NO POS. Heavy and bulky, yup. Beautifully made and reliable, yup!
It's the truth... the Beretta isn't supposed to have an extractor. It doesn't NEED one. Once the slide's back, there's no ejection port to toss the case through... just wide blue sky above. The case forcing the slide to the rear provides plenty of force for the ejector to knock it out of the way.
And, since the Beretta has the tilting barrel, there's no need for an extractor to un-chamber a round, either... just let the barrel up and dump it into your hand!
In the case of a pistol having a full slide unlike the Beretta, it's lack of an ejector IS a BAD idea.
I'd say the two pistols serve slightly different roles.
The Beretta is easier to use for women particularly, since it can be loaded/unloaded without need for physical strength, i.e., racking the slide. It's got more gripping area, and makes a nice 'house' mousegun.
For CCW, there's no question... the P-32 is the best choice. Nothing is as flat or as light.
But, I don't consider the Beretta a bad gun at all... in fact, if I DID, I'd be a total jackass for giving my mother a Titanium one with a front night sight for her bedroom nightstand!
Flyer
 

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Aha! By Jove!

Ole Flyer knows his stuff! I conseede on the Beretta. Never fired one, only looked it over, so really can't say. But the short barrel length does concern me as far as hollowpoint expansion goes. We didn't get too gooda results with the P32 a few years ago with JHP's in the wetpack test so a shorter barrel isn't gonna help. And remember Goldenloki's data kinda said the same thing with gelatin. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm
But maybe CorBon's hot stuff (I hate it) might still expand in the Beretta since it did pretty good in the P32, as I remember.
But then, I think we all agreed a long time ago that FMJ's were the best way to go in .32cal short barrels, like the P32, anyway.

Here is one of the finest web pages anywhere on .32acp JHP expansion......

http://stevespages.com/page8f32acp.html

He has a excellent table down the page for the P32 with factory loadings. Best I've ever seen.
Later, when I get time, I'm going to try and duplicate Ricciardelli's water jug test with the P32 and Win Silvertip ammo. His tests were all with the longer barrel Walther so it'll be interesting to see what happens with a P32. Only drawback is the jugs are only good for one shot. Hard to draw a statistic with only one data point! We'll see.

In the meantime, thanks, Flyer, for all you do.

Cheers,
og
 

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what Flyer said ^^

The Tomcat is a great little gun. Better in a purse than a pocket with that thick little grip, but I'm sure not ashamed to carry it when in the woods. The P-32 is a much better concealment gun, at a cheaper price, but it's not exactly a sweetheart to shoot. In fact we bought a P-32 for my Mom to carry concealed; only had it for a day or two until she fired it, and then we traded it in on the Beretta. I do wish it had a slide lock though, but with its system of recoil springs in the grips, I don't think one would fit in there without adding even more thickness.
 

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darn!!

Well, darn you guys. Now I'm thinking I need to go buy the Beretta the dealer had!! :?
What's a good price?
og
 

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I owned a Seecamp LWS-32, and IMHO it was a mediocre design (only works with Silvertips) and a truly lousy piece of...
manufacturing.

The machining was really awful overall, and it broke its firing pin three times efore I dumped it, due to incredibly bad quality control.

It was also clearly not designed for human hands, at least not for anyone over 9 years old, and had more sharp corners on it than a carving knife - a most unpleasant gun to carry or shoot.

By comparison, my P3 has been more reliable, and is a much better-designed gun than the Seecmp.
 

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Beretta vetoed!!

thank you, bigbird, for the report. I'd not seen a SeeCamp so your report confirms my suspicions.

And my interest in the Beretta Tomcat has been vetoed, by the little lady of the house. I suggested to her that she might like to try a different gun than her P32. When I showed her the picture and specs for the TomCat she said absoluetly no!. She doesn't want anything with a bunch of levers and buttons to push, no safety switch for sure, no hammer either. And the idea of a flip up barrel where she has to load a round was out for sure. She wants it to be ready by her bedstand to shoot immediately without having to do anything but aim and pull the trigger. So back to square one, I'm not getting a Beretta to try. The P32 is still the BEST!

Sorry, Flyer and bulbman, I won't be able to support your choice. BTW, have you seen all the bad reports on the Tomcat over at pistolsmith.com? Frames cracking and lots of FTF's.
Seems the only frames for it are aluminum (even the Inox) to keep weight down.

Well, until another day. (BTW, those .32mag revolvers have a BIG, noisy recoil.)
og...........

anybody want to support the NAA POS?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Gotta be careful what you read... some people like to pick on certain guns!
Beretta introduced the Tomcat initially with a slim slide, and some of them cracked or their frames were damaged at high round counts.
Beretta re-designed the entire slide and came out with the "wide body" Tomcat... set the two side-by-side and the difference is huge. Makes it bigger, but also more durable.
Flyer
 

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you should be able to pick up a new kitty for around $250-300 depending on how much change your gun dealer wants to make. Your wife might change her mind once she feels one, soon you'll wish all guns (blowback at least) had a tip up barrel, it becomes quite hard to live without it. Easy to unload and it wont damage your ammo with repeated cyclings. True, it has a safety lever, which is the only thing I hate about it. I just leave the damn safety off and the hammer down, works fine for me. None of the levers or buttons (just one :wink: ) ever get in my way. Just try one, maybe a range nearby has one for rental, or your gun store has a used one theyll let you test fire. If you're not 100% satisfied, simply... :mrgreen:
 

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Will do....

Thanks for more info. The Beretta will stay on my list. I'll watch for a good price.
og...........

Flyer, I'm surprised you didn't ask me why I left the .32NAA/CorBon monster off the list. I'm still mad at them for what has to be the biggest POS gun and ammo I ever got sucked into buying.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I didn't mention the .32 NAA because I put a newly designed, better barrel in my P-3AT and am now using it instead of the .380!
Out of the P-3AT recoil isn't any greater than the .380 and it makes a huge fireball, deafening blast, and completely annihilates whatever I shoot with it.
If Kel-Tec ever gets around to chambering the P-3AT in the .32 NAA, I'd pick it over the .380 in a heartbeat.
Flyer
 

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Only if....

The only way I'd reconsider it is if someone else made ammo for the .32NAA caliber. CorBon's ammo doesn't just fragment, it disentegrates when it hits leaving only a thin piece of copper jacket a few inches into the target. The lead just vaporizes, the velocity is so high. Word is they add some TNT to the powder to get it up there.
I contacted the big 3 ammo makers and all said they had no plans to make the round. A Rem Golden Saber with the heavy brass jacket would probably work.
The ammo and the dumbest thing I've ever had in a pistol...using the last spent case as the slide lock....just leaves me hoping it was all just a bad dream. That's why I got rid of it.

There ain't no perfect pistol or magic bullet, guess that's why we all keep searching for it.
og.....I'm wrong on occasion, tell me what the magic bullet is.
 

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one in defense of the PP

not only is she the classic lady of the list... :oops: she is easily the most accurate, at least for me although heavy but i dont like a pistol in my pocket anyway so i carry her iwb slim and on the hip plenty light. and being a lefty an external slide-lock is useless for me.... :shock:
 

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great info

thanks, sadp40, good info. I have a friend that collects .22's and .32's. I'll see him at the range Monday and ask him if he has a Walther or Beretta or both. Maybe we'll have a .32 day at the range.

Flyer, and bulbman, have already got me in trouble with this thread. I've ordered a new INOX Tomcat from my dealer. Having to be real sneaky about it or else it's gonna cost me big for more jewlery, clothes, etc. I'm sure you know what I mean. :lol:

I'll compare the P32 and Tomcat with Silvertip ammo next chance I get.

og
 

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ooh, dat inocks is purrrdy!

hey, you could give it to the wifey and call it a present! Then borrow it a lot :mrgreen:
 

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You're gonna love it, I'm sure! Like I said though, the only thing I don't like is how you have to count your shots, but thats only a minor inconvienence. I've found that the cor-bon's we have in it seem to expand very well in my wetpack tests (I use phonebooks though if it matters)
 

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test results!!

this post in honor of Bulbman!!

As I promised, here is the comparison of the Kel Tec P32 and the Beretta Tomcat using Win Silvertip ammo. The purpose of this was to compare pistols, not ammo. (For other .32acp ammo tests, look for the "Original wetpack tests" thread and also check Goldenloki.) Also shown are a few rounds fired with a S&W .32H&Rmagnum revolver.
The results with the 2 pistols were nearly identical, the slightly longer barrel P32 only penetrating about a 1/2" more. Both had 1 round to partially expand with better penetration, of course.

My accuracy was better with the P32 and I thought the Tomcat had a fairly strong trigger pull. My shooting partner with me felt the Tomcat was much better than the other 2, with lowest recoil. I couldn't tell much difference in recoil between the 2 pistols, he said he could. The revolver has noticeable more recoil, don't think a lady would like it. The final proof will come when we can get our wives to the range to compare the 3 little .32's. Hope my wife likes the Tomcat, I want my P32 back, it's still the best CCW deep conceal pistol there is, IMHO. Sure it's a mousegun, who cares!
og
 

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that trigger pull will smooth out with some use, mine was the same way! In my experience, the Tomcat stings less than the P-32, maybe its just because my hands are young, not old and leathery :wink: (My Kimber's trigger serrations start to cut my finger after 100 rounds or so!)

I'm sure she'll love it, and you'll get your nice, slim P-32 back in no time at all!

And lets see some pics of the kitty, maybe a few in comparison to the P-32 8)
 
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I think that in many cases price becomes an issue and the P32 usually wins out. I too was interested in the Beretta 32 when they first came out but when I actually saw them they seemed a tad large. I waited and as it ended up, I picked up a P32. This was my first Kel-Tec and I was impressed soo much, as they say...the rest is history. I stopped carrying the P32 when the P3AT came out but I do miss the slide lock.
 

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While I love my 3 P32s, I would like to put in a good word for my CZ-83 in 32acp.

OAL: 6.8"
Barrel: 3.8"
Height: 5.0"
Width: 1.4"
Weight: 25.0 oz

Think of it as a Full Size 32. Recoil is negligent, the DA/SA trigger is very nice, it is very accurate, and I have 2 15rd magazines on order from CZ-USA. This is NOT a SD weapon, but it it so much ffun to shoot.

P.S. You can get a Manhurin made Walther PP in 32acp for well under $300.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I've got a CZ-83 in .32, too.
I love the darn thing... I call it my "Wonder 32".
There's something just neat about having a 15 + 1 .32 pistol that's small... like a mini-service pistol.
Needless to say, it's NEVER leaving my collection!
Another pistol I love is the Savage M-1907. This was the very first pistol to feature a double-stack magazine, with a capacity of ten. The Savage logo was "Ten Shots Quick!", and Bat Masterson wrote a small book about it for Savage called "The Tenderfoot's Turn", about how it was more accurate than a Colt SAA and more fun to shoot.
Another pistol that deserves mention is Remington's Model 51. Most of these were made in .380, but some in .32. They were such a perfect fit in the hand, and so reliable, that many people still consider them the finest .380 ever made.
Flyer
 
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