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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As a very pleased owner of both a 9mm and 40 S&W Sub 2ks, I am on the verge of ordering an SU-16.

The only issue holding me back is the chambering of the rifle. The SU-16 manual specifically states "The SU-16 rifle is designed and chambered for the .223 Remington cartridge. The type of ammunition is also stated on the right side of the receiver. Do not use any other ammunition." :?: Does this preclude using MilSpec or Nato 5.56 ammunition?

I am aware there is a slight difference in chamber dimensions and there is no issue firing the .223 Remington in a 5.56mm/NATO chambered rifle but there is an issue firing the 5.56mm/NATO in a .223 Remington chambered rifle due to possible higher pressures.

Specifically in my case I own a significant quantity of recent production (2001) IMI M193 ammunition and want assurance it can be used safely (and often) in the SU-16.

PS1 - I have read Flyer's review of the SU-16

PS2 - I asked this question of Kel-Tec directly in an e-mail but have yet to recieve a reply.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for a rapid reply as usual.

I understand the rule of thumb. But for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would manufacturer a "Sport Utility" rifle chambered for .223 Remington rather than 5.56/NATO and possibly preclude the 'safe' use of widely available, powerful and inexpensive ammo.

I base my concerns on the article at http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html, among other sources, and it would be nice to get a definitive answer from Kel-Tec on the SU-16 chamber specs and use of 5.56/NATO ammo.
 

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The main pic on their page says 5.56


And in the specs they give it in metric and american .223 and 5.56mm. I'd assume it's probably fine. I bet they didn't do any significant testing either way and that is why they haven't responded to the email yet. Keep us updated if you get anything back from them.

It's a great rifle and I'm sure you'll love it.
 

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Yep, the SU was designed to use the Nato round. It handles standard .223 just fine, too.
It likes either one equally.
Flyer
 

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I've had extractions problems with some 5.56 SS109 ammo I got. It's SB (S&B?) brand, spanish manufactured. Comes in a tan box with a sword through gear emblem on the side, with "INI" then "Fabrica de Palencia" below that. When I shoot this, the extractor rips through the rim, and I have to pound out the round with a cleaning rod. However, this is the ONLY "5.56" labeled ammo I've shot. I picked up a single 30rd box of south african, which comes in 10 box plastic "battle packs", and will see how that functions next time I head out.
 

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Re:

mlindholm said:
I picked up a single 30rd box of south african, which comes in 10 box plastic "battle packs", and will see how that functions next time I head out.
I had serious problems with this stuff feeding, extracting, you name it... in a Bushmaster AR15 chambered for 5.56.
 

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Actually, the Spanish ammo is made to Fiocchi's specs.
Oh yeah... not related in any way to Sellior & Bellot.
Flyer
 

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I picked up a single 30rd box of south african, which comes in 10 box plastic "battle packs", and will see how that functions next time I head out.
I had serious problems with this stuff feeding, extracting, you name it... in a Bushmaster AR15 chambered for 5.56.
I've seen similar problems with that same ammo in a DPMS AR15. It would swell in the chamber after firing, the extractor would rip part of the rim off the case, and the case would have to be driven out of the chamber. That's only on the ones that would actually go into the chamber, though... (DPMS AR's are known for their tight chambers)

IMHO, it's junk and is best avoided at all cost.
 

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Re:

Stasher1 said:
It would swell in the chamber after firing, the extractor would rip part of the rim off the case, and the case would have to be driven out of the chamber. That's only on the ones that would actually go into the chamber, though...
That's funny...those are the exact same symptoms that I had with the S|B brand SS109!! Unfortunatly, I have about a box and a half left of it, and it wasn't exactly cheap at $6/20 rounds. :( I know it's not Sellior & Bellot...just wan't sure how their name is spoken (S... B... or S... & B...).
 

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I had multiple problems with the South African ammo in a Olympic Arms CAR15. It did not work well in a postban Bushmaster with 20 inch barrel either. It was a good price and I stocked up. I ended up trading off most of it for pistol reloads at a gun show.

I have yet to get a SU16 but when I do it will not be fed the South African ammo.
 

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Just got back from taking my new SU-16 to the range for test firing and sighting it in. Fired about 70 rounds of XM193 and 20 rounds of American Eagle (Federal) 223. The M193 ammo functioned flawlessly. Out of the 20 rounds of American Eagle 223 there were 5 failures to feed. In one case the bullet was pushed all the way back into the case!

Of course, my SU-16 is not even broken in, but the 223 ammo didn't function were well. I'll get a few hundred rounds through the rifle before trying it again on 223.
 

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Thanks for a rapid reply as usual.

I understand the rule of thumb. But for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would manufacturer a "Sport Utility" rifle chambered for .223 Remington rather than 5.56/NATO and possibly preclude the 'safe' use of widely available, powerful and inexpensive ammo.

I base my concerns on the article at TheGunZone - Top Gun Guides & Gun Gear Reviews, among other sources, and it would be nice to get a definitive answer from Kel-Tec on the SU-16 chamber specs and use of 5.56/NATO ammo.
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