[Guest]

These pictures were taken today while I was at the range and I have to include that these were taken with my camera phone!

Included in the pic's is a double feed and a smiley with both JHP and FMJ. I am aware that these pistols need a break-in period and am fully prepared to do that. My question is will the smiley's stop after the barrel has had a few hundred rounds beat against it? It seemed that after shooting approximately 120 rounds today, with no cleaning or lubing. It seemed that it got better towards the end with many strings of fire having no problems. The double feeds (see pic) were happening around the 4th and 5th rounds in the magazine. The pictured rounds were with some blazer ammo, but it happened with the PMC/FMJ also. I will add that this is a very accurate pistol and not unpleasant to shoot. I just want to avoid a trip back to the factory for something that will "work itself out". I have seen Flyer's barrelectomy but I am not comfortable doing this.

Please give me some advice as to what to expect or do regarding this.

 

[Midiman]

My question is will the smiley's stop after the barrel has had a few hundred rounds beat against it?

In short... no. See the two articles on this subject in the articles section on our homepage.

http://www.ktrange.com (Just in case you bookmarked the board)

 

[Guest]

ok, I reviewed the articles and they seem to explain the barrel modification. I don't have needle files, a vice nor would I feel comfortable doing the modification if I did. WAHT DO I DO NOW? What would sending the pistol back to KT do? I am trying to avoid that. Should I polish the feed ramp with 600 grit sandpaper? I'm confused :?

Well it won't let me upload the picture of the double-feed. This would happen (4th to 5th round) and then the next round would be a smiley. I have had pistols that had problems in the break-in period but they worked themselves out after 200+ rounds when all the parts banged together long enough to "meld". I am getting the feeling that this is not the case with the P3AT. Is it that once you have a "smiley" problem you always have a "smiley" problem unless you do the barrel mod?

I should say this; If it was just a smiley problem I could live with that. It appears that the "smileys" are casuing double feeds and FTE's which in turn cause the pistol to malfunction. It seemed that it was an intermittent problem today. And it is probably not a limp wristing problem as I was paying particuliar attention to keep a firm grip. I am looking for advice to get this pistol to operate more reliably. I am probably rambling becasue I am at work as I type this and pretty diasspointed at my first trip to the range with my P3AT.

Thanks.!

 

[Midiman]

Re:

ok, I reviewed the articles and they seem to explain the barrel modification. I don't have needle files, a vice nor would I feel comfortable doing the modification if I did. WAHT DO I DO NOW? What would sending the pistol back to KT do? I am trying to avoid that. Should I polish the feed ramp with 600 grit sandpaper? I'm confused :?

Well it won't let me upload the picture of the double-feed. This would happen (4th to 5th round) and then the next round would be a smiley. I have had pistols that had problems in the break-in period but they worked themselves out after 200+ rounds when all the parts banged together long enough to "meld". I am getting the feeling that this is not the case with the P3AT. Is it that once you have a "smiley" problem you always have a "smiley" problem unless you do the barrel mod?

What you have are two separate issues. polishing the chamber and feedramp with some 600 grit may eliminate the feed problem, but the smileys are here to stay. I DO have a vise and a set of needle files, however, my needle files are old and were purchased from a hobby store to do work on model kits. I stopped by Sears today and bought a new, better set for $15ish. I'm not sure the vise is necessary but it will sure make the job easier. I plan on modifying the ramp before I shoot my first round through it. Marty, from Kel-Tec, stated once that he had done the same thing to his. You might persuede a local gunsmith to do the work for you.

 

[Flyer]

norfdet893,
The smileys are going to stay there.
Whether they are an actual PROBLEM is what's up for debate...
I'm mainly concerned that they'll affect accuracy and hollowpoint function, rather than cause malfunctions (which I DON'T believe they will).
So, unless you modify your ramp, you're going to get smileys.
Another reason to do the mod, incidentally, is to protect your magazine followers... they get pretty chewed up by the ramp.
Also, your double-feed problem is possibly due to a chamber in need of polishing, like Midi described, or possibly you've limpwristed a bit... make sure your grip is secure and tight.
I don't believe a trip to is necessary, 'cause they don't do the ramp mod, and the polishing is very simple to do yourself.
Flyer

 

[Guest]

Ok, I can live with the smileys because realistically at the distances this gun is deployed accuracy will not be a problem. Will it affect the way that a hollowpoint opens up, maybe but I am not worried about that either. Frankly, getting the gun to go off and put rounds in the BG is the point. The problem that I have is that there are ALOT of FTF's and FTE's. Now, there seemed to be decreasing as I shot more. I will try to polish the chamber and feed ramp with some sandpaper and will pay attention more closely to my grip. I plan to try to run another 100 rounds through it tomorrow and if the problems persist then I will post another update.

Thank You for the assistance. Atleast I feel a little better. I couldn't hardly wait to get this pistol and I am killing myself wanting it to be reliable enough for carry. This is really a great gun.

regards,
eric

 

[Guest]

I did a very light [email protected] with some 400 and 600 grit sandpaper. The feedramp, chamber and hood have a little shine to them. I also polished the hammer, slide rails and breech face. Another trip to the range tomorrow and maybe a finishing with the dremel. Why is the slide so hard to retract. It seems like the slide binds on something when it is being pulled to the rear. Is this normal? Is it the recoil spring or is it actually binding on something?

 

[Midiman]

Re:

Why is the slide so hard to retract. It seems like the slide binds on something when it is being pulled to the rear. Is this normal? Is it the recoil spring or is it actually binding on something?

Because of the size and weight of the gun, it has a wicked recoil spring in it. The other thing to watch out for, since you mentioned slide binding...is peening of the slide rails that can narrow the gap and cause binding. They may need to be filed down a few times till everything settles in (we're gonna have you going to Sears for those files yet!)

http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=22

 

[Flyer]

norfdet893,
You're probably feeling the barrel being pulled down out of battery.
The slide travel in the P-3AT is short enough that the barrel must be pulled down from engagement with the slide very abruptly... you'll feel it as a slight "hitch", then things will be smoother again.
Oh yeah, new tip, you heard it here first:
I now recommend sanding/filing the side of the ejector on the side facing outwards, until it's just slightly beneath the surface of the slide rail, instead of being level.
Some P-3ATs HAVE bound up on the ejector, to the point where it's actually battered the inside of the slide. By reducing it's profile in this area, you'll never have a problem with it, and in fact it might make things a bit smoother in every case. It's steel, the frame's aluminum, so it's a natural "grabber". It also is free to move around a little during cycling. Eliminating it completely from slide/frame interaction seems a good idea.
Flyer

 

[Guest]

Ok, i've decided to go ahead and get the files. FLYER, can u give me an idea of how long it took to do the barrel mod. And, did it require you to place the barrel in a vice?

As far as the slide binding, It may be as Flyer described. It is possible that what I feel is the barrel being pushed out of battery. I will take a look at the frame (as in the barrel peening post) to see if there is any wear.

Are the files in a set? Or do I just need a few?

Regards,

Eric

 

[oldgranpa]

ramp mod

Eric,
the main needle file you need is a round one or what called a half round one. If you don't have a dremel tool with the felt tip polisher, you'll also need some emery or sand paper in real fine grade like 300, 400, and 600. A dremel tool for the grinding job is not advised unless you have experience with it, can really overdo it with a dremel. OK for the final polish job.

You don't absolutely have to have a vise. But holding the barrel in one hand while filing with the other hand is going to take a lot longer 'cause you have to go real slow so you don't cut the two sides or scratch something else. You might be able to buy a small C-clamp and just hold the barrel down to the edge of a table. Put a thin piece of wood against the barrel when you clamp it so the barrel side doesn't get scratched or burred.

Good luck,
og

 

[Blackhawk]

Flyer,

In one of your previous posts on smileys, you opined that you thought felt recoil was less after the barrel mod. Seems like the impact to make the smiley would be transmitted mechanically to the grip, but if the same force went through the recoil springs as intended, it would seem to be lessened because of less shock. Does that make sense?

 

[Flyer]

norfdet893,
It'll take you about an hour or so for the mod... maybe a little more for a first-rate job.
Blackhawk,
Yes, I do think this affects felt recoil. I hesitated to speculate for awhile, but now it seems to me that the barrel ramp slamming either into the nose of a bullet or the mag follower couldn't be doing anything to help reduce recoil!
Anyone can feel the difference for themselves by simply firing their P-3AT without a mag in place. There's going to be a difference.
Flyer

 

[ppmd]

Ok, I'll throw in the mix.

Here's a magazine follower "smiley".