As I have written I have just purchased a P-11 and really like the pistol. I have previously owned Smiths, Berettas, Colts, Glocks, Walthers, even Taurus. I seem however to have read a good deal here about breakage, QC, and reliability issues. Is this a problem and what should I look for. I intend this pistol to be a backup/off duty pistol and it must be absolutely reliable if I am to trust it. There is much I love about this pistol but I could only relegate it to toy status if i'm constantly worried about breakage. I take care of my pistols, and they take care of me. What says the group, and what should I look out for?
Reliability questions
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·Shotar gets the prize. Few people will log on to post that their pistol works exactly as it should.
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467 Posts
I would never use Wolf ammo in the P-11
If you are using Wolf steel case and jacket, I doubt if you will beable to get through 200 rounds with out a feeding or ejection problem!. Wolf ammo is cheap but not in the long run!. You can find very good deals on brass ammo at Wal-Mart.
As for self-defence I use the 147gr. Fedreal Hydra-Shok, This is like a frieght train, this will turn your 9mm into the stopping power ranges of the 45acp. It is not much good past 30 feet in these short barreled guns, but that is good because most attacts will be within 10 feet probably 6 feet, if you mis you dont have to worry about hitting someone across the road.
I describe the Hydra-Shok kinda like doing surgery on someone while they are awake with a very dull knife.
If you are using Wolf steel case and jacket, I doubt if you will beable to get through 200 rounds with out a feeding or ejection problem!. Wolf ammo is cheap but not in the long run!. You can find very good deals on brass ammo at Wal-Mart.
As for self-defence I use the 147gr. Fedreal Hydra-Shok, This is like a frieght train, this will turn your 9mm into the stopping power ranges of the 45acp. It is not much good past 30 feet in these short barreled guns, but that is good because most attacts will be within 10 feet probably 6 feet, if you mis you dont have to worry about hitting someone across the road.
I describe the Hydra-Shok kinda like doing surgery on someone while they are awake with a very dull knife.
I shoot wolf in everything and know my ammo pretty well. In 9mm I really don't like the over penetration prospects with the 147. I much prefer a 115gr JHP such as the silvertip or the venerable +P+ LE loads, that not being available the 115 hydrashok will do nicely or one of the golden sabre rounds. I will post separately about my experiences with wolf as I feel it bears impirical data revelation.
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·Re: I would never use Wolf ammo in the P-11
Are you trying to say a 147 grain bullet fired from a 9x19 handgun is not dangerous across a street? Sir, you need to educate yourself. If you are going to fire your defensive handgun in a public place, you need to be VERY concerned about hitting someone behind the target. That 147 grain Federal will still be packing over 125 foot pounds of energy at 300 yards. More than enough to kill the unfortunate bystander that catches it.diamondmike said:
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2,654 Posts
reliability
again, my p11 #122xxx has never had a hiccup of any kind! i have over 800 rnds thru it. i had jf do an f&b but not because of a problem. my trigger tho still long is extremely smooth and lighter than my s&w mod19 double action. if ccw comes to ohio it will be the one i choose when the wife or grandchildren are with me. i've meant to try an eraser trigger stop on it but as with too many of my good intentions, havn't got around to it. it will probably take an ohio "get together" just so i can show it off. i hesitate to "fix" things that aren't broken.
again, my p11 #122xxx has never had a hiccup of any kind! i have over 800 rnds thru it. i had jf do an f&b but not because of a problem. my trigger tho still long is extremely smooth and lighter than my s&w mod19 double action. if ccw comes to ohio it will be the one i choose when the wife or grandchildren are with me. i've meant to try an eraser trigger stop on it but as with too many of my good intentions, havn't got around to it. it will probably take an ohio "get together" just so i can show it off. i hesitate to "fix" things that aren't broken.
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467 Posts
The 147gr. drops considerably out of the P-11
I am merely stating that the 147gr. bullet drops considerably coming out of these little 2 inch barrels. And I doubt very very seriousley that the 147gr. bullet coming out of a 2 inch barrel would even stay above ground at 300 yards, you are talking rifle exterior ballistics at 300 yards!. They say that the 22 short will travel one and a half miles, but this too would be totally impossible coming out of a 2 inch barrel on flat land!.
I am merely stating that the 147gr. bullet drops considerably coming out of these little 2 inch barrels. And I doubt very very seriousley that the 147gr. bullet coming out of a 2 inch barrel would even stay above ground at 300 yards, you are talking rifle exterior ballistics at 300 yards!. They say that the 22 short will travel one and a half miles, but this too would be totally impossible coming out of a 2 inch barrel on flat land!.
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·Re: The 147gr. drops considerably out of the P-11
And I'm saying you need to educate yourself. A 147 grain bullet at 800 fps out of a 3.1" inch P-11 barrel will travel 18 yards before it drops 1 inch. And 18 yards is considerably farther than across the street. The bullet will travel about 65 yards before it drops one foot. At 100 yards it will have dropped about 29 inches. So a shot intended for the chest of an attacker that goes over his shoulder can very easily wind up in the belly of some poor slob a hundred yards down range. You are correct about the bullet drop at 300 yards (about 25 feet), but the bullet won't hit the ground till it's out about 150 yards if you fired it dead level, and it will go considerably farther than that if you launched it up at even a very shallow angle.diamondmike said:
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·Doesn't Taurus still have a lifetime warranty on their pistols? If that is the case it should be a moot point.
This is getting interesting!!
But... where'd the Taurus Warranty come into play? Did I miss something?
Anyhow... the P-11 has a 3 inch barrel. If you were to aim at a man's nose at ten feet, across the street it would likely hit a man the same size in the mouth.
I decided LONG ago that the entire overpenetration argument wasn't an issue at all. Most shots fired in gunfights miss the target entirely.
So...
I just don't even take it into consideration, unless it's a round I'm considering for in-house use, i.e., chosen deliberately for under-penetration of walls, etc..
Flyer
But... where'd the Taurus Warranty come into play? Did I miss something?
Anyhow... the P-11 has a 3 inch barrel. If you were to aim at a man's nose at ten feet, across the street it would likely hit a man the same size in the mouth.
I decided LONG ago that the entire overpenetration argument wasn't an issue at all. Most shots fired in gunfights miss the target entirely.
So...
I just don't even take it into consideration, unless it's a round I'm considering for in-house use, i.e., chosen deliberately for under-penetration of walls, etc..
Flyer
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467 Posts
You need to make up your mind!
imashooter2,
First you said the bullet will travel 300 yards with over 125 foot pounds of energy!
Now! you say the bullet will travel 150 yards, but failed to mention how many foot pounds of energy!
Then you measured the barrel out to 3.1"
Heres a little news flash!, you only have 2 1/4 inch of actual rifled barrel that the bullet travels through!!, you must have forgot that the bullet sits in the chamber. The way you measured the barrel is the technical way to measure a semi-auto but we was talking about a 147gr. fired from a 2 inch barrel!, Remember??
GAME OVER!
The CAT won!
imashooter2,
First you said the bullet will travel 300 yards with over 125 foot pounds of energy!
Now! you say the bullet will travel 150 yards, but failed to mention how many foot pounds of energy!
Then you measured the barrel out to 3.1"
Heres a little news flash!, you only have 2 1/4 inch of actual rifled barrel that the bullet travels through!!, you must have forgot that the bullet sits in the chamber. The way you measured the barrel is the technical way to measure a semi-auto but we was talking about a 147gr. fired from a 2 inch barrel!, Remember??
GAME OVER!
The CAT won!
Re: reliability
edited to add:
I didn't mean to stir a storm or great ammo debate. I started that thread in the General section. Please, shoot what you are comcortable with, but in this part of the country I know for sure that a heavy coat will turn 147SS into ball before it enters the body. I am however intrigued by this 135gr round. I still believe velocity needs to be above 1000fps, thus I use 165s in my .45 as well.
Byron, I think i saw in a thread that you are in Canton, I generally shoot indoors at Zepplin in Akron. Me and my keltec will be regular features there on Sundays for the durration of the cold weather.byron said:again, my p11 #122xxx has never had a hiccup of any kind! i have over 800 rnds thru it. i had jf do an f&b but not because of a problem. my trigger tho still long is extremely smooth and lighter than my s&w mod19 double action. if ccw comes to ohio it will be the one i choose when the wife or grandchildren are with me. i've meant to try an eraser trigger stop on it but as with too many of my good intentions, havn't got around to it. it will probably take an ohio "get together" just so i can show it off. i hesitate to "fix" things that aren't broken.
edited to add:
I didn't mean to stir a storm or great ammo debate. I started that thread in the General section. Please, shoot what you are comcortable with, but in this part of the country I know for sure that a heavy coat will turn 147SS into ball before it enters the body. I am however intrigued by this 135gr round. I still believe velocity needs to be above 1000fps, thus I use 165s in my .45 as well.
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·Re: You need to make up your mind!
You really need to stop trying to justify your postings in this thread, you are embarrassing yourself.
Do you even stop to read these things before you post? In your first hallucination, you postulated that a 147 grain 9x19 bullet wasn't dangerous at much over 30 feet. So I pointed out that the bullet was indeed dangerous at 300 yards. Next you sputtered that what you really meant was that the bullet would fall so fast that it wouldn't be a hazard. So I provided the figures on bullet drop. I based my calculations on a muzzle velocity of 800 fps and a ballistic coefficient of .15. In actuality, the bullet has a ballistic coefficient over .2, so it would drop less, and retain more energy than I originally stated. The P-11 is capable of launching a 147 grain bullet well over 300 yards. The 150 yard limitation would be the result of a dead level launch angle with the pistol held at eye level for an average male, i.e. the bullet will drop about 66 inches at 150 yards. Oh, and bullets will retain more energy at shorter distances, so the answer to "How much at 150?" is "More than at 300."diamondmike said:
You really need to stop trying to justify your postings in this thread, you are embarrassing yourself.
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467 Posts
One last thing to say!
I will close this matter up by saying one last thing, then I am ready for a new topic!
" I Pity the fool standing in front of my gun "
We all should be on here to judge the gun! and not the members!
To That END
I will close this matter up by saying one last thing, then I am ready for a new topic!
" I Pity the fool standing in front of my gun "
We all should be on here to judge the gun! and not the members!
To That END
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Guest
·I have never (other than the Second Chance guy) found anyone who would volunteer to be shot with ANYTHING! Therefore, anyone that thinks the 147gr'ers are weak form a line to the right. All that think that the P32 is an underrated caliber, form a line to the left. I am going across the street and will fire one round into each of you, your choice. Those that survive can start the, "I survived being shot with a weak caliber" post in the Other Guns forum for a lengthy debate! Everyone says that, it's a weak caliber, it's inaccurate, it's not a man stopper but oddly enough no one ever volunteers to be shot by one. I for one am not volunteering!...............So......whose first?
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