[Jim Cameron]

I bought a new H3XXX 380 last month. The first 50 WinClean rounds fired the best. These only hit me the head about 5 times and left my trigger finger feeling like it was just bopped by a small hammer. Next came the 25 UMC's. They resulted in 1 stove pipe, 1 double feed and 1 FTE. Then I tried the Corbon 90gr JHP's. Firing 7 of them gave me one double feed.
I then thoroughly cleaned, inspected and lubed the gun. 25 more UMC's and 6 more Corbon's gave similar results to the first firing. All the FTE's occured on the last round of the mag. And, of course, the trigger snap and brass flying in all directions happened with all ammo. I've never had a limp wristing problem before, but I guess it's possible. I don't know where to start. This gun has been a big disappointment so far. I don't know where to start. I don't want to sell it, but it's become an option. I'm going to fire another 100 rounds to see if there's any change. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Flyer]

I don't like the word limp wrist, but I don't like the word weak wrist either...
You're describing classic limpwristing, which is hard for some to accept if it's never happened to them before. However, the P-3AT only weighs a tad over 7 ounces and depends entirely on your grip to cycle properly.
The gun is at it's lightest at the last round... hence your ftes there.
Try making a conscious effort to lock your wrists so they can't swivel up and down at all... take your right hand, make a fist, and lock it. Try swiveling it up and down on your wrist with your other hand... you shouldn't be able to! Apply this same procedure when firing the P-3AT, and it'll become second nature.
The brass to the head is also best solved by this... try keeping the muzzle directed at the target, instead of allowing the gun to rise during recoil. This works very well at eliminating the brass impacts.
Flyer

 

[Midiman]

Additionally, make sure you've given the chamber a good polishing and Flyer, in all due modesty, didn't point you to his Truth About Limpwristing thread.

 

[Jim Cameron]

Thanks

Thanks guys. I'll work on my grip. Hope that helps.

JIM

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

One of my P3AT's is very picky about ammo, with similar failure rates with UMC, even worse with PMC. But, it runs 100% perfectly with Winchester Silvertips.

My other 'at runs fine with all of them.

So you might want to try some different ammo, polish the chamber, or send it to KT for examination.

Either way, I'm sure you'll eventually get it running to your satisfaction, keep your chin up buddy (but wear a hat at the range)!

 

[flatrock]

Bought a P-3AT this morning and took it out to the range. I did a quick 3 minute fluff and buff and fired about 30 rounds. I only had one FTE, and that was firing with one hand, so it was probably because I didn't keep my wrist locked well enough.

I had no problems with casings hitting me in the head, they all flew way over and behind me. I did get one heck of a smiley on the one round I checked. I guess I'm going to have to work up the nerve to do a ramp-ectomy.

My accuracy is horrible, but since the only place I had to shoot was a 25 yard range, I'm not overly concerned that I couldn't keep them on the paper my first trip out when I haven't shot in about 7 years.

I added a Handal Jr and a one shot mag extension. I can't get a 7th round in the mag even with the extension, but at least it gives me a bit more to hold onto until I get a Bersa floor plate ordered.

My Wife fired one shot with it and decided she didn't like it much and went back to out shooting me with both her little beretta 21, and my 9 mm S & W Sigma. Her one shot with the P3AT was better than most of mine as well. I really need to practice.

 

[flatrock]

Opps. I meant to start my own thread, didn't mean to hijack yours.

 

[Jim Cameron]

how and where exactly should I f&b

I've never done an f&b so could someone tell me how. I have a dremel if that's any help.

JIM

 

[Jim Cameron]

btw

Oh, and I don't care what you post on the thread. The more you write, the more I might learn. Thanks.

JIM

 

[flatrock]

I used the instructions from here for the fluff and buff.

http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/keltec/prep.htm

 

[oldgranpa]

chamber polish

the ordinary polishing felts for a dremel tool will not fit the P3AT chamber as is. I had to trim an old tapered felt down so it would fit in there.
Polishing the chamber is important and will go a long way to eliminate FTE's. But other things matter too.....following.......

All brands of ammo are not equal. The big, old time mfgs like Winchester, Speer, Remington have a reputation to keep and therefore use good quality brass. Some of the smaller, independent shops probably import cheap brass from who knows where. None of the mfgs are going to tell you a thing about the secrets of ammo making. That's the only way they can get their profits up.
So some brass is going to act different when fired. The momentary pressure in the chamber when firing is very high and actually 'yields' the cartridge case and it expands to the diameter of the chamber. (You can prove this for yourself if you have a micrometer and measure case diam. before and after firing.) If it wasn't for the chamber retaining the case, the case would rupture. Normal, properly made cartridge brass has a slight rebound after yielding and springs back a little so it's not frozen in the chamber. A dirty or rough chamber magnifies the problem. Jim, you first started having FTE's after 50 rounds, I believe you said. The next time was with 25 rounds. So soot in the chamber is going to worsen the problem.

And if it's cheap imported brass the yield point is lower and the case may try to 'weld' itself to the chamber. Or it could be just the opposite and the brass is overworked to start with and therefore has no 'rebound' left. I have no access to my old metallurical lab to confirm any of this anymore.
If my theory is anywhere near right then a good polishing job is the best answer. The dremel with right size felt tip and polishing compound is the way to go. Top factory grade ammo will help too. Also, firing a dirty pistol worsens the problem, especially after the first 25 rounds.
(P.S. the only FTE's I've had is with CorBon's 90gr+p stuff. But, I'll admit the pistol was getting sooty from firing about 25 rounds.)
FWIW,
og

 

[Guest]

I too have had similiar problems with my P3AT. Did a light F&B and it is a little better but not 100%. However, I have come to accept this fact; most of my FTE and stove pipes are in the last 45-50 rounds. This could be becasue of limpwristing or it could be several other factors working against each other as well. That being said, I realize that the P3AT is not, nor was it ever designed as a target gun. It will get out 40-45 rounds without a problem. It is strictly (FOR ME) a BUG to my primary carry. I am confident that when needed it will deliver the 7 rounds of .380 where I need it within a reasonable distance. Keeping this in mind makes my stress level a little better when I consider getting rid of the pistol when it continually jams during a range session. I have considered sending it back to KT however I am not sure that it is worth my time and $$$ in shipping to send it to them with a note that says it jams only in the last 45-50 rounds. Just my .02 worth. Not really sure what else could be done anyway.

 

[Guest]

I should have added that I am going to go ahead and order a Bersa finger extension and try that before I consider sending it back. Might held the limpwristing.

 

[Jim Cameron]

Thanks

Thanks for all the info and suggestions. I'll put them all in action once I get my pistol back from KT. That's right, I returned it. I saw the dealer I had bought it from a local gun show and he said he'd ship it for me and cover the expense. I figured it couldn't make things any worse. He also said that another P3AT he sold at the same time as mine has already been returned to him with similar problems. I do plan on keeping the gun now though. I picked up a Handall Jr. and plan on getting the finger extension also. Hopefully all of these efforts will yield a gun I can depend on for carry. Thanks again to all.

JIM

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

Hang in there, I'm sure it'll end up being reliable.

Norf: I'm sure KT would exchange just the slide/barrel assembly for you, that could ship cheaply via normal mail.

 

[yzguy]

I added a Handal Jr and a one shot mag extension. I can't get a 7th round in the mag even with the extension, but at least it gives me a bit more to hold onto until I get a Bersa floor plate ordered.

look here for loading the last round:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/magext.htm

 

[rkc2000]

Oddly enough, I've shot around 200 rounds of UMC and 30 of Cor-Bon +P JHP and have had zero problems (NIB). Never had any problem with the pin either.

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones...