[MurrayNevada]

I have given up waithing for the Kel-Tec P-45. If anyone has any knowledge or experience with the Cobra Patriot .45 ACP I would appreciate it if you would share it.

Thanks

 

[Flyer]

Good guns.
The .45 is the ONLY one that is by this company, though! Don't mess with the 9mms... they're pretty much only inferior P-11 copies.
The Patriot, on the other hand, has proven to be an excellent, reliable pistol.
Flyer

 

[oldgranpa]

Any good?

Flyer,
have you fired one of those? There are some on gunbroker for $127 to $150. It's smaller than my Bersa and lighter due to the plastic grip. Barrel is pretty short too at 3.3". Might not make a JHP expand very well. Light weight, 20oz, and plastic, it might have higher recoil.
If it's as good as you say, the size and price might make it a real competitor. No wonder Kel Tec doesn't have a .45 yet.

Murray, did you check anything else, like the Bersa?
og

 

[Flyer]

oldgranpa,
Yep, I've shot one.
Don't worry; keep your Bersa!!!
They snort fire like a dragon and kick your hand off. As a carry gun, and accuracy-wise can't even compete with the Bersa.
It IS, however, quite reliable and a good deal for the price.
Flyer

 

[Olddirtybaytown]

It's about time somebody asked...

I'm about to have one of these pistols myself, hopefully sometime next week. The biggest 'problem' is the stock trigger-it's gritty. But after polishing and especially after firing it gets a lot smoother & up to/over 50% lighter in pull on the scales. According to Cobra owners its also more reliable out of the box than the P-11's... Im assuming the biggest difference is it will feed a variety of ammo without a F&B. Another good thing going for these pistols are aftermarket 10rd mags made by Promag (new for $17 @ fourfourmag.com) There's a yahoo group for these guns too, under the name RepublicArmsPatriot45-check these messages (58/967/1131/1136/1493/1625) for info on the Patriot Fluff & Buff. Some Pat's have needed sight adjustment/filing but it's not as common as the P-11's. Also, some owners have mentioned a bruise on their trigger finger after 50+ rounds but this can be eliminated with some 600 grit W&D on the front of the trigger itself. As far as recoil goes-don't worry... Because of the design of the grip it's not a problem, especially for a 20 oz .45 But if it particularly bothers you-get a Hogue grip or make/custom order an A-grip for it. There was a story a few years back about a Republic Pat owner that could not get this pistol to fail... Using handloads, he loaded up to +P/+P+/.460 rowland levels, even using a custom 3 spring recoil system on the .460's He told Republic Arms what he was doing and they supported the idea and I think donated the extra 2 springs and some parts-even though the manual says no ammunition loaded above standard pressure! They (Cobra now) have customer service on par with Kel-Tec, just on a smaller scale. Btw, the sellers on gunbroker that list them for under $150 set the reserve for about $100 higher. Check thegunsource.com - it's the only place I've ever found that stocks them and they go for $230... These pistols are surprisingly rare-under 1500 ever made under both names(Republic/Cobra) and the prices seem to consistently go up...

 

[Flyer]

I didn't know they were that rare, I confess...
A dealer near me has one with a "new" tag on it for $249!
If they're that rare...
I know where I'm headed, tomorrow!
Flyer

 

[Olddirtybaytown]

Grab it. I dont think anybody knew until recently when people started comparing their serial #'s... I talked with a Pat owner who has both a Republic model and a Cobra model, and even though they're physically identical besides markings, the newer model Cobra 'cleaned up' better after F&B--slightly better trigger pull after polishing and even more noticeably after the break in-200 rds. Btw-this same person later SOLD his Glock 36 and replaced it with one (now two) of these-that's worth noting. Especially considering you can buy almost 2 1/2 Patriots for every 1 Glock! Now that I think about it, maybe its a good thing they're relatively unknown ($$) and I should keep my 'mouth' shut :twisted:

Seriously though, anybody interested in one of these should read up at the Yahoo group, theres some very useful tricks... But first, a warning about the earlier REPUBLIC ARMS Patriots. Some (no known #'s, maybe 1/100) had "weird"(quoting a gunsmith) barrels where something went wrong in the tooling proccess-this supposedly didnt effect accuracy but somehow made the barrels more prone to fouling and impossible to properly clean. I havent heard anything but good since Cobra took over, so if you already own a defect R.A. Pat, send it back to have the barrel replaced by Cobra. If you do happen to find a Republic for sale, this doesnt mean automatically dont buy it, but check the barrel out first. If it was a lemon you will see a noticeable difference from what a normal barrel looks like, at that point either skip it or tell whoever's selling it to knock off $50-$75, then send it off to Cobra and pocket the rest... For some reason, the used RA's are selling for just as much, or sometimes more than the Cobras and the quality control is much better now, so just get a Cobra (aka C.E.I.)...

 

[Midiman]

Are the barrels parkerized? I've seen parked barrels end up with some of the finish in the bore... and, yes, it makes them impossible to clean.

 

[Olddirtybaytown]

I dont think it was the finish, it was something in the actual machining proccess-the striations(sp?) I didnt see a picture of it so I cant really describe it, but something serious. The 'smiths that did see it had never seen anything like it, and so they could only describe it as 'weird' because it was such a rarity. I never heard that about parkerized barrels-any specific guns known for that? Or just sloppy platers?

 

[madman]

Pictures, anyone?

Hey, OldDirtyBayTown (or anyone else who can do this),

I'm interested in seeing a picture with the Patriot .45 and a P11 side-by-side in the same picture for comparison. I also wouldn't mind if the picture(s) had a P3AT in them as well... I've been looking at the Patriot .45 for about 6 months now but hadn't bought for various reasons. Now I think I will, since someone with experience with one has enlightened the unwashed masses about how good they are. I just have a hard time conceptualizing the size of a gun from a picture without another known reference point that I can compare against. Anyone who can post said pics, it will be greatly appreciated!

BTW, re: earlier comments about their customer service -- I've purchased parts from Cobra for my Davis D32 derringer before (they bought Davis's assets, machinery, tooling, etc, lock stock and barrel when Davis went under a few years back), and it's true, they're really great. Both orders I placed were shipped *same day*, and in both cases I called around 3pm-ish.

 

[oldgranpa]

Murray's on to something!!

Murray,
looks like you're on to something! Great reports. Since I'm a .45 fan, maybe my gundealer/gunsmith friend south of town can locate one for me.
I'm also a fan of compact pistols that shoot good, have a decent trigger, and are fairly reliable. If it kicks like a mule that's fine too. I have a Bond Texas Defender 9mm derringer that kicks like a wild goat and it's fun to shoot!
Cheers to all,
og

 

[Olddirtybaytown]

OG, you might need to tell your gunshop friend to contact a large dealer like SOG. The smaller suppliers dont usually stock them and you'll be waiting for a month or two to get your hands on it.

 

[madman]

JackD, thanks!! Good pics! I had rather suspected that the Patriot would have a bit larger profile than a P40 / P11, but it's about the same. Seems to me that with big pockets this could still be a pocket gun. Maybe cargo pants pockets... Anyway, I think this must be my next purchase, when I'm done being broke... :lol:

 

[madman]

Article

Here's the text of a July, 2003 article that discusses the Patriot .45. I snatched this from the CEI homepage (http://www.cobrapistols.com). The article itself can be found at http://www.cobrapistols.com/media/article_6perfpolymers.htm.

"Six Perfect Polymers" by J.B. Wood -
Among the older handgun writers (and, alas, I am in that category), there are some who denigrate any construction that isn't steel and wood. Hey, a few of them even sneered when the first alloy frames came along.

The late George Nonte once did a five-thousand-round comparison test of two identical pistols, one steel, and one alloy. For those too young to have seen that article (thirty years ago!), I will note that the alloy survived perfectly. And now, we have polymer frames. In the earliest applications (Hi-Standard Duramatic, 1954) the frame was indeed "plastic" in the old sense of the term. Like the stocks once used on some Savage shotguns and rifles, this material was relatively fragile. Even so, it was remarkably durable.

Today, the term is "polymer," and the change in the terminology is appropriate. The material used now is quite different chemically, and added ingredients ("glass-filled" for example) have greatly increased the strength and flexibility. For handgun frames, polymer has many advantages. In manufacturing, it is much easier to pop the frame out of a mold than to cast and machine in metal. This lowers the cost. Also in polymer, you can do things in design that would be difficult in metal.

Six Perfect Polymers

Obviously, a polymer frame can't rust. there is no need for separate grip panels, as these can be part of the main construction. Also obvious is the weight, much lighter than steel or alloy. And, the flexibility allows it to absorb impact that would deform a metal frame, and spring back to its original shape.

The downside list is fairly short. If you subject it to intense heat, it will melt. On the other hand, if you subject a steel or alloy frame to that much heat, the springs will soften. the other thing is the "feel" in the hand. Until you get used to them, the polymer-frame pistols tend to seem a little "top-heavy." When they are fully loaded, this factor disappears. .....

....Big-bore fans, here's the one for you, a compact polymer-frame .45 Auto, by master designer Nehemia Sirkis. Here at the start, let's avoid possible confusion about its origin. It was first produced in 1997 by Republic Arms of Chino, California. When Republic Arms went out of business, Cobra Enterprises purchased their parts and access to tooling. Cobra now manufactures their own model, the Patriot 45, which is very similar to the old Republic Arms Patriot.

The Patriot is striker fired, with an automatic internal striker block. The locking system is falling barrel with enclosed track in the barrel underlug. The DAO trigger action is continuous, with no reset. There is a single recoil spring, with a full length guide. Whatever polymer is used for the frame it is tough. The robust sized rails for the stainless steel slide are integral with the frame; there are no steel or alloy inserts. So far I have put about 300 rounds through my gun, including some fairly warm loads and the rails look just the same.


The business end
of the Patriot 45 The front of the trigger guard has cross ridges, but is not hooked. The front of the grip is finger-recessed with room for all three fingers of an average hand. The backstrap and the sides have good molded checkering. The square bottom of the steel magazine catch is recessed. There are no other external controls, making the whole thing very flat and concealable. In my early low-number pistol, the magazine was made from the top two-thirds of a regular 1911-pattern magazine., so the counterholes go all the way down. At the bottom, the floorplate is push-button removable.

 

[madman]

Here's the text of a July, 2003 article that discusses the Patriot .45. I snatched this from the CEI homepage (http://www.cobrapistols.com). The article itself can be found at http://www.cobrapistols.com/media/article_6perfpolymers.htm.

"Six Perfect Polymers" by J.B. Wood -
Among the older handgun writers (and, alas, I am in that category), there are some who denigrate any construction that isn't steel and wood. Hey, a few of them even sneered when the first alloy frames came along.

The late George Nonte once did a five-thousand-round comparison test of two identical pistols, one steel, and one alloy. For those too young to have seen that article (thirty years ago!), I will note that the alloy survived perfectly. And now, we have polymer frames. In the earliest applications (Hi-Standard Duramatic, 1954) the frame was indeed "plastic" in the old sense of the term. Like the stocks once used on some Savage shotguns and rifles, this material was relatively fragile. Even so, it was remarkably durable.

Today, the term is "polymer," and the change in the terminology is appropriate. The material used now is quite different chemically, and added ingredients ("glass-filled" for example) have greatly increased the strength and flexibility. For handgun frames, polymer has many advantages. In manufacturing, it is much easier to pop the frame out of a mold than to cast and machine in metal. This lowers the cost. Also in polymer, you can do things in design that would be difficult in metal.

Six Perfect Polymers

Obviously, a polymer frame can't rust. there is no need for separate grip panels, as these can be part of the main construction. Also obvious is the weight, much lighter than steel or alloy. And, the flexibility allows it to absorb impact that would deform a metal frame, and spring back to its original shape.

The downside list is fairly short. If you subject it to intense heat, it will melt. On the other hand, if you subject a steel or alloy frame to that much heat, the springs will soften. the other thing is the "feel" in the hand. Until you get used to them, the polymer-frame pistols tend to seem a little "top-heavy." When they are fully loaded, this factor disappears. .....

....Big-bore fans, here's the one for you, a compact polymer-frame .45 Auto, by master designer Nehemia Sirkis. Here at the start, let's avoid possible confusion about its origin. It was first produced in 1997 by Republic Arms of Chino, California. When Republic Arms went out of business, Cobra Enterprises purchased their parts and access to tooling. Cobra now manufactures their own model, the Patriot 45, which is very similar to the old Republic Arms Patriot.

The Patriot is striker fired, with an automatic internal striker block. The locking system is falling barrel with enclosed track in the barrel underlug. The DAO trigger action is continuous, with no reset. There is a single recoil spring, with a full length guide. Whatever polymer is used for the frame it is tough. The robust sized rails for the stainless steel slide are integral with the frame; there are no steel or alloy inserts. So far I have put about 300 rounds through my gun, including some fairly warm loads and the rails look just the same.


The business end
of the Patriot 45 The front of the trigger guard has cross ridges, but is not hooked. The front of the grip is finger-recessed with room for all three fingers of an average hand. The backstrap and the sides have good molded checkering. The square bottom of the steel magazine catch is recessed. There are no other external controls, making the whole thing very flat and concealable. In my early low-number pistol, the magazine was made from the top two-thirds of a regular 1911-pattern magazine., so the counterholes go all the way down. At the bottom, the floorplate is push-button removable.

 

[madman]

Part 2

here's the rest of the article.

There is a low full-length sight rib on top of the slide, with lengthwise striations. The square post front sight is integral with the slide. The square notch rear is dove-tail mounted, adjustable laterally by loosening a vertical Allen screw. The vertically ridged trigger has a quick and easy pull and also a hesitation point when pulled slowly, so you can use the sights. Fired with the Federal 185-grain JHP, the Patriot made one amazing 1.13 inch group at 15 yards, just below center, touching the black.

Shooting .45 in a 20-ounce compact pistol, the felt recoil was about what you would expect, but it was not unpleasant. I have fired another compact .45, almost identical in size and weight, with which the felt recoil fell into the "nasty" category....

 

[madman]

Here's another article, from American Firearms magazine, located at http://www.cobrapistols.com/media/article_gooddun.htm

A Good Gun to Carry
The three main lines from Cobra, Their Derringers, The Freedom Series and the Patriot Series range in price from $99 to $299. Calibers range from .22 LR, .32, .380, 9mm and .45 Auto.

As we all know, California enacted some very restrictive handgun tests. The objective was to cut down the number and kind of handguns that could be sold to the California citizens. It's not easy to pass the California test. Cobra has good guns that just didn't cost very much.

Cobra offers a lifetime warranty on their firearms. Doug Skillman of Cobra said that less than 1/2 of 1% of the guns ever come back with any problems. Most of those are processed and sent back within two or three working days. Cobra stands behind it's products with their proven customer service.

Mr. Skillman said business was good, and that Cobra is shipping just about everything they can make. Their Derringers are doing well with the cowboy action shooters. Most of the Cobra handguns are small and especially good for women, and men with small hands. Mr. Skillman is planning to do more with the women's market in the near future.

Cobra's guns lend themselves well to the concealed carry market. Even their largest, the Patriot .45, is a narrow one inch and a light 20 ounces, empty. Renouned gun reviewer J.B. Wood has listed this gun as one of his "Perfect Six Polymers." He wrote in the publication, Special Weapons for Law Enforcement, "Whatever type of polymer is used for the frame it is tough."

Sales are good, and the pawnbrokers have been a good sales area for Cobra Mr. Skillman and Cobra had a booth at last year's Pawn Broker's Convention, which was in Las Vegas. He said they had excellent reception. There are about 9000 pawnbrokers with FFLs. Over the last ten years the pawnbroker part of the FFL list is the only section that stayed the same in gross number, and in fact, even increased a little. AFI magazine rotates through the pawnbrokers over the year. The next pawnbroker's convention is in July in New Orleans.

Philosophically, AFI's editor, Andrew Molchan is in Cobra's corner. Mr. Molchan said, "I never liked the attitude that only rich people should have firearms. Poor honest people suffer the most from crime in America. Cobra gives protection to many poor, honest working people, who need it the most."

Patriot Series .45 ACP

Handguns, in the under $150 class, ten years ago sold in enormous numbers. Companies like Stnadard Arms, Bryco, and Lorcin Engineering collectively sold hundreds of thousands of guns a year. In terms of units sold, they were always in the top ten firearms manufacturers in America. The above companies have retired or contracted, but Cobra is now helping to supply those more affordable products that have always been popular good sellers.

IF you want to expand your value line of handguns, this is a manufacturer you should look at real hard. Cobra's are sold through most of the popular distributors. Or, give them a call at 801-908-8300. Visit Cobra at www.cobrapistols.com.

 

[oldgranpa]

Murray, your turn!!

Murray,
you better hurry and get one and give us a range report.
og :roll:

 

[MurrayNevada]

OG:
I may have one as early as next week. I will certainly give a report. I hope we have not driven up prices through this thread.

 

[Olddirtybaytown]

And I'll do the same. Im going to have to buy a dremel tool and spend a few days breaking it in, so no guarantee on time, but soon... I want to run the most ammo I can (reasonably) afford through it and lighten the pull as much as possible for the 'outstanding' groups. I'll post when the gun comes in with some more opinions and once again with the 'final' group measurements. If a stock P45 made a group like that--after sighting in/practice/f&b I should be able to get a group under 1" @ 15 yards. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone from CEI reads this, they do lurk around their Yahoo site and answer questions from time to time... I'll have mine 8)