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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just handled the new S&W 1911 scandium commander. it was NICE! I saw it at $849.00. It was lighter than the alum colt, and fit and finish was typical S&W quality. I am lusting for this gun. Ya'll go take a look at this one-- you'll love it(not a paid S&W spokesman, I promise!). It's a hell of a lot better than that hunk-o-crap Kimber I recently wasted my money on. Oh, to know what I know now....
 
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I feel the same way........I was going through the gun safe this weekend, contemplating what I could sell to raise money for this one.....
 

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HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!
Repeat after me, slowly and with steady rythm:
Colt and Springfield Armory make the best full and Commander sized 1911s.
Colt and Springfield Armory make the best factory full and Commander sized 1911s.
If you want a custom variation there's Wilson, Les Baer, Valtro, and others.
The Springfield 1911 Stainless loaded Commander sized pistol is roughly ten times better than the Smith version at not much more than half the cost.
The Smith 1911 includes plastic and MIM parts.
Plastic and MIM parts.
MIM, MIM, MIM, MIM, MIM parts.
Colt and Springfield, Springfield and Colt.
Memorize those words.
You WON'T be sorry.
Flyer
 
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Re:

Flyer said:
HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!
Repeat after me, slowly and with steady rythm:
Smith and Wesson makes the best full and Commander sized 1911s.
Smith and Wesson makes the best factory full and Commander sized 1911s.
If you want a custom variation there's Smith and Wesson. The Smith and Wesson 1911 Stainless loaded Commander sized pistol is roughly ten times better than the Springfield version at not much more than half the cost.
The Smith 1911 includes great and wonderful parts.
Smith and Wesson....Smith and Wesson.....Smith and Wesson
Memorize those words.
You WON'T be sorry.
Flyer


I Like this quote much better....... :D
 

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Well, then don't blame me...
I watched two new Smith 1911s self-destruct at the range on Saturday. I'm surprised the cursing wasn't audible in Alaska.
Flyer
 

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Re:

Flyer said:
HOLD IT RIGHT THERE!
Repeat after me, slowly and with steady rythm:
Colt and Springfield Armory make the best full and Commander sized 1911s.Flyer
When Smith decided to make the 1911 it became the best make bar none. IMHO
 

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Umm....
Well, okay...
I will tell you I was a 1911 gunsmith for 7 years a long time ago, and IMHO the best 1911 I've ever handled have been Les Baers.
Colts next, followed by Springfields.
During that period I'd work on an occasional Smith auto... during that period you'd usually be able to shake the box the gun came in and metal shavings would fall out into the wastebasket.
Sorry, but Smith is does NOT make the highest quality, big-name handguns. COLT does.
Don't take MY word for it... buy Smith's finest revolver and a Colt Python and hold them side by side. Just LOOK at them.
Flyer
 

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Re:

Flyer said:
During that period I'd work on an occasional Smith auto...
Well you are a Smith so I believe you sir. I only wonder why it was only an occasional Smith gun to come into the shop, as they are some of the most prolific guns on the market. You don't usually see smiths dedicated to the Smith gun either. I have held many Colts, both revolvers and autos and they are good guns. They are not Smith quality guns in my opinion. No, not every Smith is perfect, but most are better than Colts at half the price. The Only Smith I do not think is better than almost all others is the Sigma line. They work and are OK but they are not of the quality of a Smith, or at least in my view.

I certainly apologize to you Flyer. Every time I state my opinion about a certain gun you seem to take it like I am saying you are wrong. I do not mean it that way. I only mean that it is my Opinion. I like Dodges, Springfield's, and Smiths! I do not like Chevys, Glocks, or Colts(well most of them anyways 8) ). I think Browning was a genius, but Colt is just a company. You have a different opinion. I hope we can still be friends?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I seemed to hit a sore spot here :oops: . I meant to imply that, at this price, i have not seen a 1911C that was that nice in a while-- including springfield or colt. to compare a LB to a S&W is not really fair, and you know it. LB kicks the hell out of any gun, period. The reason that the 1911 had a bad rep with cops for years was the poor preformance from the colt guns. I remember picking up a ser 70 gold cup and being able to feel so much side-to-side play in the gun that it made me embaressed for colt. My point is, if I bought a commander tomorrow, it would be the S&W, Bar none. at any rate the new SIG 1911 GS is better than all of them(flame, flame!) :) :) .
 

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Ok, ok, ok, this is getting ridiculous.
I said I was a 1911 'smith... and there WEREN'T any S&W 1911s to work on. During that time the only Smith autos there were to work on were the M-39, M-59, and lastly the M-69. (Duty-gun wise; not counting their target pistols).
Now, whether Colt or Smith made better guns isn't a matter of personal opinion. It's empirically true that Colt made far superior handguns from the 50s to the early 90s, when mistakes in management screwed things up thoroughly. Earlier Smiths were the equivalent of Colt; very few guns are as nice as Smith revolvers dating up to the early 50s.
About that time Smith quality fell and Colt remained about the same. Ask any TRUE expert what the greatest snubby of all time was, and I'll wager a good deal they'll say the Detective Special or one of it's variants, using the D frame. The Smith frame equivalent would be the K.
All D-frame Colt revolvers had a 3-point lockup system that froze the cylinder in place as the hammer dropped. No other gun's done this, exept the Python, which still does.
When the Detective Special was released, Smith hurried like maniacs to counter the move, and the model 36 Chief's Special was born. It allowed the revolver to be smaller by only accepting five rounds. This is still the basic design used for all J-frame Smiths.
Smith made a few errors, though, that persist to this day.
One fault of the J-frame 2-inch snubs is the lack of a full-length ejector rod. It's not long enough to push the empties completely from the chamber... often you have to shake the gun or use your hand to remove the cases. The Colt always had a full length rod.
Getting back to 1911s. The slide to frame fit is the LEAST important obstacle to good shooting and performance. It's the slide to barrel fit that really counts. Yep, you could shake a Colt and make it rattle... that's also what made it so reliable. "Loose as a Goose".
When I went through the Ohio Peace Officer's Academy the 1911 I would use to carry was off being reblued. Instead, I shot the course with a Remington-Rand 1911 my dad brought home from Korea.
Not only was I the only one to shoot perfect scores using it against Sigs, Berettas, Glocks, etc., it was the ONLY pistol that never, EVER jammed. Not once.
Again, it's not my opinion Colt and Springfield make the best of the full-production 1911s... it's a FACT. They are fully forged, better quality weapons. The two Smiths I saw break at the range had a broken safety lever, slide stop, and the second pistol had a crack develop at the botton front of the frame.
I never said Colt or Springfield were MY favorites 1911s, either. I prefer Les Baer over all others, and since they're made on a vastly smaller scale than the other brands, I didn't include them.
Colt and Springfield Armory have the 1911 DOWN PAT. They know how to make them right, and make them well.
Smith simply doesn't. Neither does Sig, for that matter (I saw one of their new ones and the accessory rail made me feel ill).
There's no reason to be offended by this. If you're a Smith fan, that's fine and dandy... I like almost all of their modern revolvers. Fine guns.
But go in with your inside calipers and micrometer and take measurements. Maybe someday the Smith 1911 will equal the others... but it doesn't right now.
Flyer
 

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Re:

Flyer said:
Again, it's not my opinion Colt and Springfield make the best of the full-production 1911s... it's a FACT. Flyer
This is nothing short of Hubris. It is an opinion. I am not being hurt or offended by this post. I don't have a vested interest at all. By the tone and length I do not think the same can be said for you. I feel I have stated an honest opinion and so have you. If your statements are fact, so be it. It is not worth my time to continue the debate. Happy posting. :D
 

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No, it's not "Hubris".
No more so that looking at a sidewalk and seeing that, since it's made of concrete, calling it "Concrete". Or declaring a telephone pole made of wood, if you can see that's what it is and can carve your initials in it with a pocketknife.
I NEVER spin. The Colt All-American 2000 was such a disastrously bad design it nearly bankrupted the company; they're still pulling out of the hole they dug for themselves.
I took quite a while to write the above post, attempting to explain why what I was saying was NOT an opinion.
You say it's not worth your time.
There's a word for that behavior, too.
Flyer
 
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Re:

Flyer said:
The Colt All-American 2000 was such a disastrously bad design it nearly bankrupted the company; they're still pulling out of the hole they dug for themselves.
Flyer
I agree that it was a monumental failure on Colt's part. I recently saw one at a local gun show and was suprised that you still saw them in circulation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
All in all, the new smith is still a nice gun.... I like it way more than krappy Kimbers-- that's all i was saying.
 

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Okay, this is the last post I'll make on the matter, since it really IS turning into a waste of time.
I like Smith autos very well... in fact I believe the 4506 is the best double-action .45 out there, better than the Sig P-220.
And yes, the new 1911 LOOKS nice.
Now... pretend you're ME, and you saw what I've seen happen with them, and listened to owners talk about them. Now, you read THIS sentence:
When Smith decided to make the 1911 it became the best make bar none. IMHO.
Let your conscience be your guide.
Flyer
 

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I can not wait to save up enough for the S&W 1911. It handles beautifully. The fit is phenomenal!!!!! My only problem is that I also want the XD! Oh the pains of premium pistol collecting.... :D
 

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Sorry, PlasticGunLover, but this thread's now being used as bait.
Feel free to start another one, if you please.
Flyer
 
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