[Clark]

Velocities and pressures from Quickload


110 gr XTP 4.8 gr Power Pistol, .974" OAL, no crimp, 23.2 kpsi, 928 fps, 210fp, no bulge
110 gr XTP 5.1 gr Power Pistol, .974", OAL, Hv crimp, 27.0 kpsi, 989 fps, 239fp, bad bulge

90 gr GD, 6.3 gr Power Pistol, .974", OAL, HV crimp,27.3 kpsi, 1144 fps, 262fp, no bulge
90 gr GD, 6.5 gr Power Pistol, .984", OAL, FC crimp, 28.1 kpsi, 1165 fps, 271fp, medium bulge
90 gr GD, 6.5 gr Power Pistol, .984", OAL, FC crimp 28.0kpsi, 1164 fps 271 fp medium to bad bulge
90 gr GD, 5.3 gr Power Pistol, .900", OAL, no crimp, 27.5 kpsi, 1080 fps, 233fp, tiny bulge
90 gr GD, 6.2 gr Power Pistol, .970", OAL, FC crimp 26.7kpsi, 1131 fps 255 fp medium bulge
90 gr GD, 6.3 gr Power Pistol, .967", OAL, FC crimp 28.3kpsi, 1157 fps 267 fp very bad bulge

90 gr GD, 5.6 gr Power Pistol, .966", OAL, FC crimp, 21.0 kpsi, 1020fps, 208fp no bulge
90 gr GD, 6.0 gr Power Pistol, .960", OAL, FC crimp, 25.9kpsi, 1110fps, 246fp, no bulge
90 gr GD, 6.1 gr Power Pistol, .960", OAL, FC crimp, 27.1kpsi, 1130fps, 255fp, medium to bad bulge
90 gr GD, 6.1 gr Power Pistol, .970", OAL, FC crimp, 25.6kpsi, 1111 fps, 246fp, no bulge
90 gr GD, 6.1 gr Power Pistol, .962", OAL, FC crimp, 26.8 kpsi, 1126 fps, 253fp, no bulge
90 gr GD, 6.2 gr Power Pistol, .970", OAL, FC crimp 26.7kpsi, 1131 fps 255 fp medium bulge

no bulge ranges from 21k to 27.3 kspi
bulge ranges from 26.7 to 28.3 kpsi



SAMMI pressure load:
90 gr GD, 5.68 gr Power Pistol, .968", OAL, no crimp, 21.5 kpsi, 1032 fps, 213fp, max SAAMI pressure, max OAL that feeds

My LOAD FOR CARRY:
90 gr GD, 6.1 gr Power Pistol, .968", OAL, no crimp, 25.9 kpsi, 1115 fps, 248fp, max load with no bulge, max OAL that feeds, 7.3 % extra powder [ 9.1% medium bulge,11.1% extra makes very bad bulge]

 

[flybob]

380 loads

Is yours a factory feedramp or did you alter it?
I don't know anything about the newer powders but given the P3AT short barrel how about some of the faster powders like Norma R1 to get more umph from the 380?

 

[CA-guy]

Flybob,

My god, don't encourage him! Get more "umph"????? Clark lives on the ragged edge of reloading safety. Some of his loads are producing numbers that are in the 9mm class. I've come to enjoy goggling at Clark's numbers and don't wish him any harm.

CA

 

[Midiman]

What's a thumb or two in the name of science. Sacrifices must be made!

 

[flybob]

380 handloads

I wasn't suggesting he go beyond those loads. The degree of bulge is beyond what I would want to shoot. My interest is to minimize flash and maximize velocity by using very fast powders.
I've never used anything faster than Bullseye and need to catch up with all these new powders. It's clear to me that loads developed for 5" barrels are inappropriate for the short Keltec barrels and that good handloads need to be developed.
In shooting my P3AT yesterday, every fifth round hit my scalp.
A more vigorous load should clear my head and maybe even let me shoot safely from the hip.
I'll be getting a 357 Keltec next week that's supposed to produce a stupendous flash .Thatt seems like fertile ground for some careful handload development.

 

[Flyer]

A more vigorous load should clear my head and maybe even let me shoot safely from the hip.

I think exactly the opposite will be the case... the added recoil will tip the muzzle up sooner and eject it sooner...
Right atcha!
Flyer

 

[Clark]

The above picture measures .0150" of case bulge.

That is the stock P-3AT case support.

I have since found a better load.


115 gr Win JHP [.540" long], 800X mixed used brass, win, speer, rp, mostly rp, Stock P3AT:
5.0 gr .976" some gilding case bulge .001"
5.3 gr .975" case bulge .001"
5.6 gr .975" case bulge not measureble
5.9 gr .978" case bulge .001"
6.05 gr .978" new style action pin walking out with each shot. case bulge .0015"
6.2 gr .979" case bulge .0035"
6.3 gr .978" case bulge case bulge .0015"
6.4 gr .979" case bulge .0015" [speer]
6.5 gr. . 977" case bulge .0025"
cut down diameter of groove on assembly pin
6.5 gr .979" action pin stopped comming out. case bulge .0055" [WW]


This is basically the same powder charge and bullet as a 9mm, but shorter OAL the drives up pressure and shorter barrel length which brings the velocity down. The two cancel, and I have 9mm performance at higher than 9mm pressures. The recoil is brutal, and my hand hurts for hours, even when wearing a glove. I like full house loads in my 44 mag, but this P-3AT recoil is not good for the hand.
The 9mm 115 gr load is on line at:
http://www.imrpowder.com/

I still need to check chrono, shoot wet phone books, check the load with the barrel full of lint, weld up the feed ramp, etc.

 

[flybob]

Clark handload notes, P3AT

I would seriously advise against welding & recutting to reduce chamber throating . The chamber is VERY thin at the 4 & 8 o'clock positions (about .030"thick). What keeps it together is that it's high strength, heat treated alloy steel. Welding heat will definitely disturb heat treatment in that weakened area. It would be better if you could get an unchambered or unthroated barrel or make one up. Keltec advertises the barrel hardness somewhere. Engineering tables will give you hardness vs tensile strength.
From your tests it seems clear 9mm ballistics are too much for that frame size and weight.
Does your expensive program predict equally high velocities with
faster powders and the 90 grain bullet or will pressures be too high. The object being to minimize flash.
When you're done with the 380, how about the 9mm & 357Sig?
It would be nice to match Keltek velocities with 5" barrel velocities without putting undue stress on the guns. I didn't mention the 40 cal because I hear it's a handfull as it is.

 

[Clark]

Re: Clark handload notes, P3AT

Yeah,
The thin spots worry me too.

Most guns I can back off a big safety margin, but just to get P32 hot rod energy, the P3AT must be very close to trouble. The larger hole it makes, makes it worth it.

The case bulge starts very quicky:
90 gr GD, 6.1 gr Power Pistol, .962", OAL, FC crimp, 26.8 kpsi, 1126 fps, 253fp, no bulge , much gilding making a line .000
90 gr GD, 6.2 gr Power Pistol, .970", OAL, FC crimp 26.7kpsi, 1131 fps 255 fp medium bulge .0045

And if you can find a chart for tensile yield of 4140 RC48, I would like to see it. It is not in Macinery's Handbook or easyily found on the internet.