Marshall board back up, URL on P3AT gelatin testing
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G
Guest
·I subscribed to the site and all I found was chat rooms. Is there an area that shows the effects of the rounds in the gelatin like Goldenloki's site?
Salient points for those who can't get in:
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Clothing barrier was insulated Carharts in excellent condition with a sweatshirt backing...
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Keltec .380 3AT
Corbon .380 90 gr. +P
Pen 16.50+” Exp N/A (left the block, not recovered)
Speer .380 90 gr. Gold Dot
Pen 10.50” Exp .476
Federal .380 90gr. Hydra Shok
Pen 16.50” Exp .356
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Clothing barrier was insulated Carharts in excellent condition with a sweatshirt backing...
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Keltec .380 3AT
Corbon .380 90 gr. +P
Pen 16.50+” Exp N/A (left the block, not recovered)
Speer .380 90 gr. Gold Dot
Pen 10.50” Exp .476
Federal .380 90gr. Hydra Shok
Pen 16.50” Exp .356
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83 Posts
I couldn't get past the agree part.
I was surprised to see the HydraShok and Corbon not expand as they are well known performers but I guess the clothing barrier and P3AT's short barrel have some say in the matter.
And of course Evan will be the first to tell you jello is not the same as a human torso.
And of course Evan will be the first to tell you jello is not the same as a human torso.
G
Guest
·I’d be interested in seeing what the results would be on the Remington UMC .380 .95 gr Jacketed Round Point. Out of all the rounds that I’ve shot so far the most recoil I have felt in my P-3AT has come from the Remington and that also includes CorBon. The Remington had .95 gr bullets and the CorBon I was using had 90 gr bullets. I don’t think the 5 gr difference in weight would cause that much difference in recoil. And this was not just a small difference but rather a very noticeable amount along with more muzzle blast to. One person here the other day said he noticed the same thing about his Remington rounds and I’d be interested in hearing if anybody else has noticed that also.
Rook
Rook
I noticed another post in the same thread at stoppingpower.net where someone who was at the jello murder event noted that he had a .380 (from the event) that had expanded to .500. He commented that he didn't know which make / brand it was for sure, but he thought it was a Winchester. If so I'd assume it was a SXT. Anyone here know of any gelatin / chrono data on SXTs in .380? I love SXTs in my .45, and I'd like to use them in my P3AT, but I'd like to see some penetration and expansion data first before I decide.
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1,327 Posts
data needs a grain of salt to swallow
I'm taking the P3AT hollowpoint data on the Marshall site with a grain of salt.
First, they don't seem to be aware of smileys and the damage to the 'petals' on a JHP round that a smiley will do as has been reported on this site. To elaborate, I still have a little smiley after my first ramp mod. It is most noticeable on Winchester Silvertip 85gr JHP. And least effect on Speer 90gr Gold Dot JHP. The two bullets are shaped different with the Winchester less taper, wider mouth and the Speer tapered more like a FMJ round with narrower mouth. My modified ramp fits the Speer better while the ramp edges still hit the sides of the Winchester.
I haven't had a chance to see if this is the case with CorBon and Federal, but if it is, and with no ramp mod smileys are closing the petals, then the round will not expand as well and give the higher penetration values in their report.
Second, with all their technology they didn't report velocities or gelatin calibration.
Seems like after reading the thread they were just having a good time and not really that serious about the results.
So, in the meantime, I'm carrying the Speer Gold Dot. I have also increased the depth and width of the cut on my ramp job (and it still doesn't match the contour of the Silvertip exactly) but it will be awhile before I can check it at the range again.
og
I'm taking the P3AT hollowpoint data on the Marshall site with a grain of salt.
First, they don't seem to be aware of smileys and the damage to the 'petals' on a JHP round that a smiley will do as has been reported on this site. To elaborate, I still have a little smiley after my first ramp mod. It is most noticeable on Winchester Silvertip 85gr JHP. And least effect on Speer 90gr Gold Dot JHP. The two bullets are shaped different with the Winchester less taper, wider mouth and the Speer tapered more like a FMJ round with narrower mouth. My modified ramp fits the Speer better while the ramp edges still hit the sides of the Winchester.
I haven't had a chance to see if this is the case with CorBon and Federal, but if it is, and with no ramp mod smileys are closing the petals, then the round will not expand as well and give the higher penetration values in their report.
Second, with all their technology they didn't report velocities or gelatin calibration.
Seems like after reading the thread they were just having a good time and not really that serious about the results.
So, in the meantime, I'm carrying the Speer Gold Dot. I have also increased the depth and width of the cut on my ramp job (and it still doesn't match the contour of the Silvertip exactly) but it will be awhile before I can check it at the range again.
og
oldgrandpa,
Now you can see why some folks don't take Evan Marshall seriously, and doubt his statistics.
His work with stopping power formulas is interesting, but his gelatin work and related studies have always seemed a bit slipshod... add to that the fact that if you disagree with him in any way whatsoever on his forum, you're banned immediately, and you'll see why there are so many doubters!
Flyer
Now you can see why some folks don't take Evan Marshall seriously, and doubt his statistics.
His work with stopping power formulas is interesting, but his gelatin work and related studies have always seemed a bit slipshod... add to that the fact that if you disagree with him in any way whatsoever on his forum, you're banned immediately, and you'll see why there are so many doubters!
Flyer
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1,327 Posts
Big \"10-4\"
Big 10-4 on that, Flyer old buddy, and that's why I registered on his forum but NEVER post anything there. I read and wonder!? :roll: :roll: The best article there was by an outsider on his home page!!
Can't do any of my own wonderful (fully qualified :lol: :mrgreen: ha ha ha ) wet pack tests until next January due to outdoor range is closed. So in the meantime I'm just working on my ramp a little at a time and shooting at the indoor range in Huntsville until I get rid of the smilies altogether. Next time around I'll pick up a box of CorBon (hate it) and Fed JHP for smiley tests.
Besides that, he pissed me off on the other site when he made the remark about being "underwhelmed" by the P3AT. His pants must really sag carrying 3 pistols!! Like someone said once, "the Know-It-All's really bother those of us that do". Wish I was but NOT. :wink:
Check my new topic on WallyMart ammo TB posted next.
og
Big 10-4 on that, Flyer old buddy, and that's why I registered on his forum but NEVER post anything there. I read and wonder!? :roll: :roll: The best article there was by an outsider on his home page!!
Can't do any of my own wonderful (fully qualified :lol: :mrgreen: ha ha ha ) wet pack tests until next January due to outdoor range is closed. So in the meantime I'm just working on my ramp a little at a time and shooting at the indoor range in Huntsville until I get rid of the smilies altogether. Next time around I'll pick up a box of CorBon (hate it) and Fed JHP for smiley tests.
Besides that, he pissed me off on the other site when he made the remark about being "underwhelmed" by the P3AT. His pants must really sag carrying 3 pistols!! Like someone said once, "the Know-It-All's really bother those of us that do". Wish I was but NOT. :wink:
Check my new topic on WallyMart ammo TB posted next.
og
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83 Posts
Oldgrandpa:
Why do you hate Corbon?
Why do you hate Corbon?
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1,327 Posts
CorBon
Hi Murray,
Maybe I'm not being entirely fair, but I've had poor results with CorBon in previous limited tests with the P32. Also, their ammo is usually a lot more expensive than Speer or Winchester JHP. So for the price it ought to perform better but it didn't for me. CorBon failed to expand 3 times out of 4 in my last .32cal test while Win Silvertip expanded 4 out of 4, Speer 2 or 3 out of 4. On the Marshall site it was reported that the CorBon .380 failed to stop and was not recovered (meaning it probably didn't expand at all). I'm not sure but I think CorBon only makes .380 in a +p 90gr JHP. And if this is the case, I will not even include it in my future tests. I just don't think the KT P3.. pistols are intended for +p although many have tried it, the bang and recoil is enough with std. ammo. The FirearmsTactical site did not test it and neither did AmmoLab.
And I know Goldenloki shows good results for .32cal CorBon, but he tested a new, longer OAL round than I did. I have not been able to find any CorBon .32 with a long OAL like he did.
Wish Goldenloki would do the .380 tests with the P3AT. His data is the only info I trust.
If there is enough interest I will repost my non-ballistic, unofficial, hollowpoint expansion test data here on KTR.
Cheers,
og
Hi Murray,
Maybe I'm not being entirely fair, but I've had poor results with CorBon in previous limited tests with the P32. Also, their ammo is usually a lot more expensive than Speer or Winchester JHP. So for the price it ought to perform better but it didn't for me. CorBon failed to expand 3 times out of 4 in my last .32cal test while Win Silvertip expanded 4 out of 4, Speer 2 or 3 out of 4. On the Marshall site it was reported that the CorBon .380 failed to stop and was not recovered (meaning it probably didn't expand at all). I'm not sure but I think CorBon only makes .380 in a +p 90gr JHP. And if this is the case, I will not even include it in my future tests. I just don't think the KT P3.. pistols are intended for +p although many have tried it, the bang and recoil is enough with std. ammo. The FirearmsTactical site did not test it and neither did AmmoLab.
And I know Goldenloki shows good results for .32cal CorBon, but he tested a new, longer OAL round than I did. I have not been able to find any CorBon .32 with a long OAL like he did.
Wish Goldenloki would do the .380 tests with the P3AT. His data is the only info I trust.
If there is enough interest I will repost my non-ballistic, unofficial, hollowpoint expansion test data here on KTR.
Cheers,
og
On the immediate horizon is a new generation Corbon PowRBall .380 which bears a strong look. Feeds like ball, can't plug with clothing by design.
If your life is on the line, does it really matter what those 6 rounds in your P3AT cost?
If your life is on the line, does it really matter what those 6 rounds in your P3AT cost?
Joined
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1,327 Posts
agree
Buck,
agreed, cost not the main factor at all, but if it doesn't work and something else that costs less works better, I'll go with what works. Just because an ammo 'brand' gets rave reviews elsewhere doesn't mean it really is that good to justify charging more for it.
If none of the JHP's are dependable and have poor penetration, then FMJ is the best choice, like we found out about the P32 with .32cal on the other site. The jury is still out on JHP for the P3AT and the judge (Goldenloki) hasn't arrived in court yet or even said he is going to test it.
The Marshall report is incomplete. Number of rounds tested? Velocities? Etc.? Can't draw a statistic with one data point.
And like I said, I won't test +p in my P3AT. If that's all CorBon's got, I'll pass on their stuff.
Just my opinion. Everybody has theirs. :roll:
Cheers,
og
Buck,
agreed, cost not the main factor at all, but if it doesn't work and something else that costs less works better, I'll go with what works. Just because an ammo 'brand' gets rave reviews elsewhere doesn't mean it really is that good to justify charging more for it.
If none of the JHP's are dependable and have poor penetration, then FMJ is the best choice, like we found out about the P32 with .32cal on the other site. The jury is still out on JHP for the P3AT and the judge (Goldenloki) hasn't arrived in court yet or even said he is going to test it.
The Marshall report is incomplete. Number of rounds tested? Velocities? Etc.? Can't draw a statistic with one data point.
And like I said, I won't test +p in my P3AT. If that's all CorBon's got, I'll pass on their stuff.
Just my opinion. Everybody has theirs. :roll:
Cheers,
og
Just ran some Speer Gold Dots through my P3AT today to make sure it feeds ok.
I haven't just shot the heck out of it, but this little gun is still batting 1000 (knock on wood).
It's backing up my PM9 whenever it isn't too big for my back pocket.
I haven't just shot the heck out of it, but this little gun is still batting 1000 (knock on wood).
It's backing up my PM9 whenever it isn't too big for my back pocket.
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83 Posts
Oldgrampa:
I still cannot get an answer as to whether all Corbon is +P. I have a new box of .380 and +P is NOT on the box and NOT on the base of the carthridge. I would think that if it was +P it would have to say so.
Also: When were you in the Corps and who were you with?
Semper Fi
I still cannot get an answer as to whether all Corbon is +P. I have a new box of .380 and +P is NOT on the box and NOT on the base of the carthridge. I would think that if it was +P it would have to say so.
Also: When were you in the Corps and who were you with?
Semper Fi
Joined
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1,327 Posts
Speer
Buck,
I like the looks of those Speer Gold Dots 90gr JHP myself. Also have some of the Speer Lawman 95gr FMJ that I will try next week. Both came in 50 round boxes, nice surprise, since most JHP is only in 20 or 25 round boxes.
Sure wish we could petition Goldenloki to do some tests.
Murray,
sent you pm.
I'm not sure about +p, Corbon website says only +p in 380. Will check my dealer next week to be sure. (I've been known to be wrong some times, maybe a lot of times, my wife says so!! :lol: )
og
Buck,
I like the looks of those Speer Gold Dots 90gr JHP myself. Also have some of the Speer Lawman 95gr FMJ that I will try next week. Both came in 50 round boxes, nice surprise, since most JHP is only in 20 or 25 round boxes.
Sure wish we could petition Goldenloki to do some tests.
Murray,
sent you pm.
I'm not sure about +p, Corbon website says only +p in 380. Will check my dealer next week to be sure. (I've been known to be wrong some times, maybe a lot of times, my wife says so!! :lol: )
og
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