[Harlequin]

I'd like opinions from people who either have both or have done this comparison. I'm going to get one or the other but the range I go to doesn't have a P-11 for rent anymore (they said it kept breaking.) So, other than holding one I have no basis for comparison.

For starters, we can assume that money isn't a problem, which is actually is, but since it's my life I'll buy the Kahr if it's the better buy. No need to include "the KT is cheaper."

I know that opinions here might be biased, but that's okay since I have a P-32 and am leaning towards another KT because I've found the P-32 to be 100% reliable.

 

[emc]

I have the Kahr K-9 (discontinued electroless nickel model) and the P-11. Here are a few bullet points regarding the two.

Kahr
Pros:
Superb ergonomics
Great, but long trigger pull
Very accurate
Reliable
Night sights readiliy available with no factory trip needed

Cons:
Heavy (For some. This is a plus for me, since it reduces recoil)
Only single stack capability (8 + 1)
Long trigger reset
Magazines are quite expensive
The nickel fiinish means that there are certain solvents that cannot be used over the long haul


Kel-Tec P-11
Pros:
Lightweight
User-friendly for the home gunsmith
10 + 1 capability in a package just slightly larger than the Kahr
All sorts of accessories
Reliable, but the owner is advised to do some additional work on the piece

Cons:
Greater recoil
Less accurate, but may be a function of the overtravel still in the trigger
Long trigger reset, unless you modify the trigger mechanism

Hope that this helps,

emc

 

[KeysBear]

emc,
Nice post.

Harlequin,
I've held a few Kahrs but never fired one. My main goals that the P-11 covers are reliability, compact size and light weight. From my experience the P-11 reliability has been proven. The size is compact enough to fit in my front pocket and the weight is light enough to not be a drag to carry around all day. For me the Kahr is too heavy. I do even better by carrying a P-40 which beats the Kahr for caliber, weight, and capacity.

Regards, Keys 8)

 

[Guest]

I have both a Kahr PM9 and a P11. They are really two different guns. The P11 is nice as it is the smallest double stack 9mm that I know of. The Kahr is nice, because next to the P3AT and the P32 it is the smallest pocket gun there is and it is 9mm too boot. I used to have the MK9, same size but much heavier. The Kahr only holds 6 rounds in the flush mag and 7 in the extended mag +1 in the chamber. The P11 holds 10 +1 in the chamber. Although some carry the P11 in a pocket holster, I do not consider it a pocket gun at all. The Kahr is a happy medium between the concealability of the P3AT and the stopping power of the 9mm. The P11 runs about 275 and the Kahr runs 550. The Kahr has a sweet 6.5 to 7lb trigger pull. The P11 says that is 8lbs but in my opinion it feels heavier than that and it needs to be shot ALOT to get it to feel that way without a F&B. The Kahr on the other hand requires nothing more than a reccomended 200 round break-in period. The P11 usually does as well but most would probably agree that a F&B is usually in order.

The best way to decide what to get is ask yourself what the mission of this pistol is and how your daily activities dictate your carrying of a weapon. I am an LEO so the P11 is nice becasue it is smaller and ligher than my Smith and Wesson duty weapon, holds plenty of rounds and will also use my Smith mags. I feel more comfortable with the more is less theory. However, for most civilians who don't really care one way or the other they may prefer the small size and weight of the Kahr and the round count is of no consequence.

I would say at this point buy the Kahr, shoot it and carry it. Save some money and buy the P11, shoot it and carry it. This way you will have the best of both worlds and I promise that you won't be dissapointed. This is if you have the money, 250.00 is an easier nut to crack in short order than 550.00.

If you were here I would let you shoot both and decide for yourself.

whatever you decide you came to the right place.

Regards.

 

[Guest]

I should also add that I have put considerable work into my P11 and as such it is a shot alotl, carried alot pistol. The Kahr has become a safe queen. Summer is upon us and that is when the Kahr is usually carried, although I did not have the P11 last summer. If you do decide to get the P11 do yourself a favor and replace the springs with those from Wolff and pick up a spare magazine. Yzguy has, hands down the best do-it yourself site on the internet.

Regards..

 

[emc]

FWIW, here are some dimensions (inches & ounces) for comparison:

Kahr K-9
Length - 6.2
Width - 1.2
Height - 4.9
Weight - 26

Kahr MK-9
Length - 5.5
Width - 1.2
Height - 4.0
Weight - 25

Kel-Tec P-11
Length - 6.0
Width - 1.1
Height - 4.3
Weight - 14.0

Kel-Tec P-32
Length - 5.14
Width - 0.75
Height - 3.5
Weight - 9.5

Anyhow, hope that this helps somewhat...

emc

 

[KeysBear]

emc,
Thanks for the comparisons. I did some P-11/P-40 measuring and weighing once for a post at The High Road. The best part about a P-11 is that carrying 10+1 you are still lighter than the Kahr unloaded. I too of course have F&B'd my Kel-Tecs - it just goes with the territory. If I need a backup for my Kel-Tecs I carry one of my Makarovs. I bought the P-11 and two Maks for about the same as it costs to buy one Kahr.

Regards, Keys 8)

 

[Harlequin]

The F&B isn't a problem. I did that to my P-32 just to see if I could do it. After looking at the size comparisons, and assuming that they are as reliable (opinions vary there), I don't see why anyone would pick the Kahr over the P-11.

 

[MILPA]

For what its worth I was going to purchase the Khar pm9. I saved my pennies and was about to take the plunge when I discovered the p-11. I researched both guns, made carefull comparison and chose the p-11. No regrets. Two co-workers decided to go ahead with the pm9. More money = better gun right? Well, side by side the Kahr does look to be a bit more refined. It is obvious the Kahr is made from superior materials, But how do they shoot? Both my co-workers have experienced feed problems with hollow points. Kahr recommended and provided upgraded recoil springs. I am not sure yet how that all turned out because they still havent accecpted the invatation to go to the range. Probably intimidated by my groups. anyhow I havent had any failures what so ever. 200 fmj and 70 hydra-shoks through the p-11. I must Admit I did polish the feed ramp on the p-11. Both are great guns, but for my needs I am more than satisfied with the p-11. In fact now I am considering getting the P3AT with the money I saved.

 

[goodshot]

I have been down the same road. I originally bought the p-11 because it was the lightest pistol with a double stack mag. I really don't think the double stack is a huge factor, but that was my thinking at the time. The Kahr triggers are much easier for me but they use a single stack mag. (no biggie)
Now I've had the p-11 for over a year and had a good experience. If you are not into working on or doing some fine tuning on handguns, then Kel-Tec may or may not be your cup of tea. I think a majority of Kel-Tec handguns probably work and function properly right out of the box. If they don't, you can't beat their warranty. Personally, I love tinkering. I love it so much that I bought a P3AT about a month ago. The same time I bought my Kahr PM-40.....
I had been looking at the PM-9 since before I bought my P-11. But now I could get the Kahr in .40 caliber ! Whole different thing now. The price for the PM-40 is the same as a PM-9...about $540. The .40 is only 5+1 in the flush mag. But the trigger is sweet ! Recoil is managable. It only weighs 17 ounces and is really the same dimensions as the P-11, give or take a few .000ths.
So, I suppose I haven't answered your question, especially if cost is not a factor. I just love pistols. I don't know why.... I guess it's an addiction.
For what it's worth, I carry the P3AT 90% more than the PM-40 or P-11. I forget I have it in my pocket.

 

[TexasBeard]

Kahr design flaw

I had a Kahr P40... The mag catch uses a teeny-tiny little piece of steel molded into the too-soft polymer. The little piece of steel has a propensity to come out of the mag catch, rendering the pistol into a single shot... Maybe. Traded it for a K40, which was much heavier, and traded that for a Glock27.

I would NEVER buy another Kahr polymer frame pistol until they fix that design flaw.

I will say the Kahr had a great trigger; nearly like my SW65 in DA; pointed PERFECT (both the plastic and stainless versions). Just not reliable enough. The KT's may have some QC issues, but their design is sound.

 

[goodshot]

Texas, It's interesting that you bring up the mag release on your Kahr. I had my Kahr pm40 for about a week when it was rendered a single shot. Yup ! The mag release had the piece of metal drop out too. I called Kahr and they sent one out and told me that I must have had one of the old design. I don't know if they were blowing smoke because the new one looks like the old one. I've put about 500 rounds threw it with the new mag release in, and so far so good. I tend to think that since they know about the problem they really have made the correct modification. I'll call it good after a couple thousand rounds.
The interesting thing is that I'm carrying the P3AT instead of the PM40.

 

[Guest]

i own both and find that i carried my KT P11 more than my Kahr PM9 or MK9. now that i have a KT P40 it will be carried more than the pm9 (sold the mk9). last year i bought a Kahr P40 last year and had several problems. after firing about 70 rounds the slide would jam to the rear, past the magazine release. it required a rubber mallot to get it back into battery. i sent it back to Kahr and they said that some of the first production guns had too much metal on the front of the slide that would cause the barrel to jam when it went into battery. while it was there i had them install nite sights. when i got the pistol back the jamming stopped but the front nite sight fell off and the magazine release broke. i sent it back and they replaced the maganine release button and replaced the slide stop stating that it was a new design. needless to say at this point i had lost all confidence in the pistol and subsequently sold it. they have good customer service, are friendly and even paid for the shipping. i just didn't feel right about the pistol after that. i replaced it with a Glock 27. My Kel Tecs however have always been reliable and i haven't really needed anything from Kel Tec except some extra parts, which they sent out graciously. i bought a pm9, with some reluctance but i wanted a 9mm smaller than my KT P11 and bigger than the P3AT. I have a few hundred rounds through the PM9 without any problems but since I have developed this Kel Tec bug, the PM9 has resided as a safe queen for several months. There is just something about 11 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of 40 that are more comforting than 7 rounds of 9mm. but, that is just me. make your decision on what works best for you. I will say this, that for the 550.00 that I paid for the PM9, you could get a P11 and a P3AT, holsters and some ammo for the same price. to me that is a better value and you still have 1 or 2 pocket autos (some think the P11 is too big for pocket carry) instead of 1.