[Olddirtybaytown]

Whats the story behind the Intratec TEC-9? Ive heard George Kelgren was involved-was it solely his design? Ive always favored the Ingram/MAC design, specifically M10-45s, but anything designed by George is worth looking into... The obvious advantage to a TEC is price, I can slap a MAC 10 together for about $850-including the tax on the lower receiver and a TEC can be had for even less but I also see a disadvantage to the TEC-9 and other variations--weight distribution The TEC doesnt use the fist finds fist method-loading the magazine into or near the middle of the machine-like the MAC or UZI designs. The extended barrel shroud would make it even more barrel-heavy and would effect accuracy regardless of practice-IMHO, especially with aftermarket 50-rd mags instead of the original 32. I realize SMG's weren't designed to be accurate at even medium-range distances but it seems like consistent practice with an UZI/MAC would be more worthwhile(for lack of a better word) using the fixed stock on the UZI/extending stock on the MAC that helps prevent your shots from 'jumping' above your target. Which seems likely with a 'select-fire' TEC. Does anybody own or has anyone previously owned a TEC? Are there any advantages to a TEC that I'm missing besides size? Simplicity or extreme reliability? Or is size all George was going for in his design? A little extra info on the MAC- It was originally produced in 1970 and later issued mostly to tank crews after being purchased from Gordon Ingram by the Military Armorment Corporation*where the M.A.C. name started* Even though it was produced by a handful of companies that all went out of business within a few years of starting production, because of its size, reliability, and cyclic rate of 1050 in .45acp and 1200 in the model-M10/9mm, the Navy Seals used it exclusively in the 70s and early 80s before switching off to the MP5-Im guessing because the MAC's had already stopped production and there were no parts until years later. Thats a pretty good 'recommendation' to me :wink:

 

[Midiman]

I've never seen one but I believe one of the Columbine kids used a TEC-9. From what I've heard, they're cheap, unreliable guns with a propensity for breaking firing pins.

 

[Flyer]

Dunno really what you'd use a Tec 9 for.
Very few were produced full-auto, and not under the Intratec name. When Intratec first started producing the semi-auto version (which is the only one they produced), the BATF quickly stepped in and stopped production, since it could be converted easily to selective fire, just like an earlier Mac. Most Tec 9s are of the last variety produced, practically impossible to convert, and not at ALL possible to convert legally.
The few that could be converted, frankly, aren't worth the investment.
If you're just wanting a piece to rock'n'roll with, and are willing to do a mountain of paperwork, go ahead with a Mac. It's about a fourth the price for the same performance, and mags are plentiful.
The Mac 10 is just a squirt gun, anyhow. If you're going to go Class 3, might as well get something that you can use for something! A used MP-5 will set you back quite a bit, but it's certainly worth it in the long run. Even an Uzi would be preferable.
I've fired a selective Mac... it's hard to stop long enough to get a full two bursts from a magazine, the rate is so high!
An MP-5, of the other hand, can be held on target easily, and it's easy to simply tap out bursts as short as three rounds, even without using the selector switch.
There's a place here in Ohio where you can rent full auto guns to shoot... worth your while to make the drive if you're serious. They've got pretty much anything you'd want to try, and are a Class 3 dealer with a full stock.
Ohio is weird in many ways... no CCW until now, but machine guns are legal. Just present your driver's license and pick your weapon, pay the rental fee, buy the ammo, and use it up!
Thinking back over the automatic weapons I've fired, if I could only choose one to buy, it'd likely be a Steyr Aug. Interchangeable barrels, cheap ammo, and one-handed ability for clearing buildings and close work, coupled with the simplest selector system there is. It's easier to keep on target than an M-16, though decidedly imprecise in comparison. Still, automatic fire isn't really intended for precision, and if it's needed, why not have a rifle that can serve the role of a sub, then with a quick barrel swap be a full fighting rifle?
For simple "Fun", it's hard to beat an old M-4 "Grease Gun". Cyclic rate is about 350-400 rps; you can actually feel individual rounds firing. Slower fire than most, yes, but that means longer sessions... and magazines are all over the place and unrestricted.
Actually, storing and use of this class of weapon is a major pain in itself... I'd personally opt for the semi-auto version of whichever weapon you like and just learn to pull the trigger fast!
Flyer

 

[Olddirtybaytown]

I forgot most TECs were produced as class II weapons(Semi Automatic) so youre not supposed to 'convert' them over. The MAC 10s/11s now have several aftermarket companies making reliable drop-in rate reducers that drop the rate of fire to about 750 in 10/45's and about 850 in 10/9mm-worth checking into... People are using M11/9's with reducers in competitions against more expensive MP5's and the MACs are 'hanging'. It is also possible to fire 2-3 round bursts with the reducer. UZI's are the original and probably the best for reliability but cost too much $ Building a 'legal' M-10 should stay under 1G even with the drop-in reducer. Then you also have the option to take out your reducer, put in a 'Mac Jack' and really chunk some lead out--about 1350 cyclic in the M-10/45 and 1500 in the 9mm model. I have heard that semi-automatic Macs, especially the cheaper M-12 have reliabilty problems, which makes sense--a heavy bolt mechanism would rather keep going than stop after every shot, which is not how it was designed to work in the original M10/11 models. And partly why they're so reliable in full automatic.

 

[Bloodwalker]

The Tec9 was notorious for jamming, and I believe that the one that the Columbine kids used jammed after the first round, and used a shotgun to do the damage that they done, not positive about that info, but that is what I heard.
I did work on a Tec-22 that had a a jamming problem, a little TLC and she was purring like a kitten.

Marty

 

[big_lead_ballz04]

I must have the worlds only working Tec 9. I have had my Preban Tec 9 and Tec 22 for about 6 yrs now and have had only minor problems with jamming. Mine likes in 9mm UMC, Federal Hydra Shocks, Remington FMJs. 22lr Just about whatever you put through it.Also my guns are fairly accurate for plinking. Mine is Semi Auto only. I have no clue about the Full auto deal.

 

[Flyer]

BLB,
The feller above ya there knows quite a bit about 'em! Dunno if he was with George at that stage, but I imagine he's had access to more than a few! Bloodwalker is Kel-Tec's head 'smith! Say howdy! 8)
Flyer

 

[big_lead_ballz04]

Howdy..... :lol:

 

[Guest]

Tec-9

The Tec-9 is a bad gun, and almost all that were made were semi-auto. The reason that they were banned is because of a stupid cop, and a stupid reporter. Some guy shot up a 7-11 with a pair of Tec-9s. When they got him, a cop told a reporter that the guns used were small submachine guns(even though they were semi-automatic). The reporter went and called the guns "miniaturized machine guns" and went on to say that the guns were very dangerous, and shouldn't be allowed on the market. Now they are personally named in the California gun ban.

 

[Flyer]

The Tec 9 is not a "Bad gun".
It was actually designed by George Kellgren, who designs all KT's guns.
It HAS been a media whipping-boy, though.
Flyer

 

[flyandscuba]

I had a Tec-9 in the early '80s -- took it on a trade and got rid of it fairly quickly. I just didn't see a good use for it. The one I had fired from a closed bolt. I believe the early ones (that were easily converted to full auto) fired from an open bolt...correct?

 

[RightToBearArms99]

I bought a used, pre-ban DC-9 (semi-auto) off of gunbroker and its been nothing but problems. It's been to the gunsmith twice. Once for a broken charging handle (which flew off during firing), and once because, I was told, the interior welds were coming apart. The latter problem caused the gun to fire when you worked the slide, even when chambering the first round. I almost shot my own car in the woods when I was loading the weapon, and needless to say, I retired the gun until I could get it back to the shop. After it's second gunsmith visit, it seems to be working fine. It does not like any aftermarket mags though, only the factory mags have worked for me and they are becoming rarer and more expensive. All in all, I've had a pretty sorry experience with the gun. The next time something breaks I'll have it fixed and probably get rid of it. I've actually got some crazy friends who want it despite my experiences.
However, on the bright side, I have had fun with it when it was operable. It's not accurate, and really serves no purpose, but its just fun to blast off a 32rd burst of cheap ammo.

 

[HardShell]

I had an early TEC-9 with all the goodies (the factory-logoed "drop case" with three mag-pockets on the outside, the ventilated barrel extension with foregrip, etc.), but it never was reliable with any kind of ammo. I traded it off rather than try to have it fixed, so it could have been a minor problem - I'll never know.

OTOH, I have a pair of pre-ban (threaded) TEC-22s - they are very reliable (with Butler Creek mags, anyway) and couldn't be any more fun unless they were select-fire. Fun is about all they are good for - but they are plenty good for that, IMO.

 

[Olddirtybaytown]

If the AWB ban 'sunsets' I would like to see George revive his Tec design. With better/cheaper technology compared to 10+ years ago and slightly better quality control it could become a great piece. Most of the problems with the originals were relatively simple--Firing pins, bad welds & cheap aftermarket magazines. If the ban drops (fingers crossed) Mec-Gar can start producing 32 & 50 rd. mags, there's already an aftermarket company making replacement FPs and decent quality control would solve/stop any other problems. Plus some Dremel work by us--sounds like a KT already.

A reliable Tec variant is probably be the best hi-capacity "car/house" gun I can think of. It's relatively compact (compared to a shotgun or rifle) light recoil, low muzzle flash and optional two hand grip. For the ultimate in reliability still nothing beats a revolver or a pump shotgun-but then recoil/muzzle flash and relatively low capacity becomes a problem. Besides 'Kel-Tec 9' has a nice ring to it...