Hood mod, or extractor problem?

8827 Views 34 Replies 10 Participants Last post by FartinLutherKing, 1 mo ago

Chaz

Discussion Starter · Jan 2, 2006

Getting FTE's in 2G 3AT, with very consistant symptoms. SN = HLR ##. Gun has been F&B. Cleaned and re-lubed after first 50 rounds.I fired a second box of UMC and kept close track of jams, one or two per magazine, as follows: When jammed, the slide was always all the way back, trying to grab a new round, so I don't attribute any of it to limp-wristing. Jams were two types.

1.) Case pulled half or 2/3 out, tipped straight up, with the hood pressing on them.
2.) Case pulled straight back, parallel to the barrel, the rim butted into the nose or case of the new round which was trying to move upward.

MAYBE THE HOOD?

On properly extracted cases, there is what looks like a double, pressed-in extractor mark on the FLAT interior of the rim. The brass always flies well up-and-over my head. On the FTE's there is always a single, neat, triangular cut nipped out of the interior EDGE of the rim. This looks like the mark that would occur if the hood knocked the case out of the extractor too early, as show by Midi in one of his posts.

MAYBE THE EXTRACTOR?

On the other hand, there are no heavy, hood crunching marks that others (Flyer?) described on the brass. Apparently the hood can hit the brass hard enough to deform it, but I am not seeing that. I have seen a lot suggestions that "the new extractors" (or to mod it) are all you need to cure extraction problems.

SO NOW WHAT?

After reading most of the posts on the subject, I am wondering "is there is a clear way to distinguish between an extractor or a hood problem?". Or should I just do the hood mod first? Any clues here?

HOOD MOD--If I do a hood mod, will KT freak if I eventually have to send it back under warranty (which I will work like crazy to avoid!)?

EXTRACTOR MOD--I have seen a number of posts on modifying extractors, but they seem to be directed toward the first gen. It seems getting it to go deeper would be tough, because you would have to file around the stop pin and not damage it--but do-able. Has anyone tried to mod the 2nd gen extractors to get a better bite?

MY OWN THOUGHT--I also thought of shimming under the contact point of the extractor spring, to put more pressure on the extractor, just to see the result.

I prefer to cure this without sending it back, but would do so if that were the dominant suggestion, or if there are improvements they still need to make on this particular gun.

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21 - 35 of 35 Posts

jdmkao

· #21 · Jan 5, 2006

I know this is not a popular reference here, but check out this thread: :tsk:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1134435151;start=

Chaz

Discussion Starter · #22 · Jan 12, 2006

2

Got new extractor a few days ago. There is quite a difference. The original one looks damaged on the left of the pic, and the tip is rounded off. It also appears that the face has been stoned or buffed off. Not sure how it got in my gun--it looks like someone messed it up playing with it! Since the tip helps grab the round during extraction, after the barrel drops, it's no wonder I had so many FTEx's.

On the right (above) is the new extractor, just as KT shipped it to me me. Nice clean lines all around, but rough as a cob. With the new extractor I went from one or two FTEx per magazine, to two FTEx in the next 55 rounds. I think I caused one. The few shells I recovered had more of a grip line embossed in the rim than the prior dimple.

I ran out of ammo, and I still need to run about 50 more rounds through her for break-in. Hopefully, the next few boxes will go without a hitch. While I am waiting to go into town, I stoned and buffed the entire extractor, and finished by stoning the machine marks from the edge, leaving it clean and sharp. The photo makes it appear that I sharpened it to a knife edge (a no-no), but the original factory flat edge is intact, sans machine marks. Looks a tad more finished (not yet blued).

Hope to have a range report this weekend.

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CRYPTO

· #23 · Jan 27, 2006

I need help Fast!!!

Hello everyone I have a SG P3AT. My extractor bold backed out of my slide and I tried to tighten it and you can geess what happened it stripped. I managed to put it back in but now my gun makes a loud popping noise when I cycle snap caps thru it. I looked at the assembley page and I put the spring and pin back into the slide like shown but the noise is still there. If someone could help me. i'm going crazy without a gun and have an even harder time finding a P-11.

V/r
Brian

Beach

· #24 · Jan 27, 2006

Re: I need help Fast!!!

Are you sure those were snap-caps?

Seriously though, that isnt a very good description of the problem. Can you dry fire on a SC?

Have you pulled the slide off and checked that the firing pin moves forward and back? Use something with a blunt end to press it forward.

CRYPTO

· #25 · Jan 27, 2006

Yep, when the extractor bolt is tightened the firing pin won't move. So I'm not sure if I'm over tighting the hex bolt or what. I looked the the diagram on the kel tec website but I'm still a little puzzled.

V/r
Brian

Beach

· #26 · Jan 27, 2006

Loosen the button head screw and take out the firing pin. When you put the pin and spring back in, the firing pin needs to have the slot in it at 2 o'clock (looking at the rear of the slide right side up)Edit: The FP must be pushed in the correct amount also, the screw fits in that cut-out the FP has. The screw retains both FP and extractor.

You have the firing pin oriented wrong, and the BH screw is bottoming out on it. Make sure it continues to move freely as you tighten the BH screw. You may need to grind a slot in the screw for a screwdriver. I had to do that with one of mine. Now I keep screws in stock and replace them every time I remove one. Be sure to put some blue loc-tite on the upper threads so it stays put as well.

Beach.

CRYPTO

· #27 · Jan 28, 2006

Ok beach I took the best picture I could and the FP doesn't move freely and I've got new 6-32X1/4 hex bolts from the hardware store until kel tec send me my new extractor and bolts. I know I seem like a Pain but I'm used to have my gun at all times. And I don't like knowing I broke something and can't fix it.

V/r
Brian

murph50

· #28 · Jan 28, 2006

Brian
Same thing happened to my new P3 AT. Got it about 2 weeks ago. The store also had a range so I took it out and started shooting. First 4 mags were great--then the FTE's started. By about 120 rounds FTE on every shot. Called KT. The woman was not helpful and was borderline rude. My gun dealer said he would send it back but would have his GS check it first. He called an hour later and said the extractor bolt had come loose,the GS tightened it and now it's working fine. I took it to the range and shot about 70 rounds and it was working fine. But the loose screw made me nervous. I called KT again and this time I asked for Erica. She said that she had never heard of this happening before. I find that hard to believe. She said I could send it back but they would't be able to get to it for 5-6 weeks.
I took it to my GS a few days ago. I asked him to loctite the bolt and see if the extractor was damaged in any way. He will also go over the entire gun. KT said they would send any parts for free if needed. I am paying the GS myself. I didn't want to wait 5- 6 weeks and I had talked to 3 different people at KT and they were not as helpful or supportive as I had hoped they would be. I really want to like this gun but at this point I can't say that I trust that it would work if needed. I'm jealous of the posts I see where they say that their P3 AT works perfect.
At this point I'm not to wild about my P3AT or the KT service dept. When I get mine back I will take it out to the range. Any more problems and it's gone and I will pu one of those smaller caliber pocket pistols made by someone else.
My P11 , on the other hand , has worked great from day 1. I Have over 300 rounds through it and it is perfect.
This whole situation with my P3AT has been very frustrating,time consuming and costly and the KT service dept has not helped me to have any confidence in the P3AT or the company. A bummer indeed !!!
Good Luck
Jack

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CRYPTO

· #29 · Jan 28, 2006

ouch, man this is the 1st time I've had any major problem like this a few FTE's and that's been it. Until now when I read about the extractor bolt coming lose then I checked and well mine was lose. So i tried to fix it not knowing the bolt was soft. Now I can't figure out how to get the FP back in correct so I can make sure my gun goes bang each time.

I'm sure your gun will get fixed right and you won't have any problems. I enjoy working on things when Im capable of putting them back together.

Flyer

· #30 · Jan 28, 2006

CRYPTO,
You need to chill, dude, and relax! You did NOT break your pistol.
Beach gave the correct solution to your problem. The firing pin at the rear is not fully rounded - it's got a flat spot. This allows the hex bolt to be inserted fully into the hole, and hold the firing pin in place without binding. The correct procedure is to make sure the pin is in the correct position and the bolt is directly over the flat, tighten the bolt down - and then back off about a quarter-turn until the pin moves freely but is still prevented from springing from the slide. Loc-Tite should ALWAYS be used on the bolt.
murph50,
I'm not sure I understand your position.
The screw holding your extractor came loose.
Big deal! Tighten and Loc-Tite the thing and stop worrying about it.
I can't think of any reason to turn my KT pistols over to a gunsmith. Most 'smiths, in all honesty, don't know SQUAT about them. There are people here at KTRange that likely know more about KTs than any gunsmith in the country (except those working for KT).
Having your gunsmith "go over everything" is like having a mechanic give your car a thorough checkup - but if he's never worked on your model of car before, or even only once or twice, he's flying blind. He can only address the areas that are comon to all handguns. Newsflash: there are hardly ANY guns out there as uniquely designed as KTs, and they have little in common to them.
Flyer

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pocketgun

· #31 · Jan 28, 2006

+1 on Flyer's comments. Guys, pocket pistols require some patience sometimes. Keep posting your progress here and you will get help from people who have a ton of experience with KTs - some are real-life gunsmiths with years of experience. Once you get it working you will have the chance to prove its reliablity through testing - something you should do with any carry firearm. And once it has proven itself to you, there is nothing quite like a 0.77" thick 8.2 ounce pocket pistol.

The alternative is to get all worked up and dump it for $100 bucks at a pawn shop or LGS. It will be worth a little trouble if you give yourself the chance to get it working.

edit to add: You will end up knowing way more about how your pistol functions than the guys whose pistols work perfectly right out of the box as well.

CRYPTO

· #32 · Jan 28, 2006

Yea I'll never make the same mistake twice. I had a XD9 that I only shot every once in a while and never carried it after i got my P3AT. Then i sold it for 1/2 of what i paid now I'm kicking my self in the ace, because I can't find a P-11 to replace it. And I've decided I like my 380 so much I'm going to get the 32 also so I'll have a choice of carry. Plus It gives me an excuse to stay at the gun range a little longer. I'm always willing to learn new things, but at the same time I don't like taking chances tearing something up without a backup. I've also learned there are some very smart people here and on KTOG that when push comes to shove they come up with some amazing idea's.

Everyone thanks for the help it appears like "we" fixed the problem but I'm going to go shoot @ the range tomorrow so I'll but sure to post a follow up.

V/r
Brian

CRYPTO

· #33 · Jan 28, 2006

EXTRACTOR PROB/RANGE REPORT

Hello everyone as you might know I've been having some small issues with my extractor bolt and FP. Well I got some new hex bolts "which" I thought were 6-32X1/4 but there aren't the exact same size as the original hex bolt. So since I had the gun apart I decided to do the best F&B possible using 600 grit sandpaper. I still need to do the magazine, FP, and some other parts. but all in all it went ok.

So thinking I had fixed the problem I went to the range this afternoon, and was able to shoot 19 rounds of UMC. 1st mag I had zero problems. 2nd mag had 3 Failure to Feed's. 3rd mag had 1 failure to fire. I also noticed a nice fat smiley. The FP came out twice. I lost it the 2nd time so I've gotta make a call to KT and see about getting some spare parts to fix my sidekick.

V/r
Brian

cltert0s

· #34 · Sep 24, 2020 (Edited)

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FartinLutherKing

· #35 · 1 mo ago

On the other hand, there are no heavy, hood crunching marks that others (Flyer?) described on the brass. Apparently the hood can hit the brass hard enough to deform it, but I am not seeing that. I have seen a lot suggestions that "the new extractors" (or to mod it) are all you need to cure extraction problems.

21 - 35 of 35 Posts