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Discussion Starter #1
This has been beaten to smithereens on every gun forum.
Might as well beat it again here, too! :D
Actually, I'm gonna be upfront about it: I think hollowpoints are BETTER than sliced bread. NO fmj is allowed to enter the chamber of a defense gun I own, unless it's for practice.
Proponents of ball insist that penetration's the thing...
Okay! I'll just carry my .25 auto (VERY accurate), and it'll be just as good as a full-sized .45 at normal civilian confrontational ranges in every case! Why mess with a .32 or a .380 at all, for a pocket gun? Go with the .25!
It's got almost as much penetration as a fmj 9mm.
Case closed! The .25 ACP FMJ is the world's BEST defensive round.
Flyer
 

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Flyer:

I've just become a convert to JHP from FMJ. I carried Fiocci FMJ in my P-3AT and P-32. I now carry Cor-Bon in those. My favorite carry round in my P-11 is Federal Hi-Shok 115 Gr. JHP(C9BP) which is the best feeding 9mm JHP that I have found so far. I even have made the move to JHP in my 1911.

My S/A Mil-Spec is now be loaded with Winchester 230 Gr. JHP (USA45JHP). These are the ones that sell in the white box at Walmarts for about $16.95 per box of 50. My reasons for this selection were as follows:

They feed flawlessly in my 1911.
They are almost identical to the Win white box 230 Gr FMJ that I frequently practice with.
The price and availability of the Winchester 230 Gr. JHP (USA45JHP) give me the opportunity to also practice with what I carry.
The balistics and performance of this round compares favorably with much more expensive ammunition.

Once I was confident in the reliability of JHP in my pistols the decision to change to JHP became an easy one.
 

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Exactly!!

Exactly!! like the rental car advertisement. And that is why I enjoy testing JHP hollowpoint expansion in my stupid little newspaper wet packs!
Even when they don't expand all the way, they then penetrate deeper. This is great! Best of both worlds, some will leave a big shallow bloody hole that hurts awful and other shots will rip the guts of the BG deeper.
A win-win situation.
I hope we get a good discussion going here on this topic.
Good idea, Flyer.
og 8)

(BTW, Murray is a guy with lots of common sense too!!)
 

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I use FMJ in my Kimber Ultra CDP II. I've stated before and will again; Do I think an expanding JHP is better than an FMJ in the same caliber, yes, all things being equal. But they are not equal. With my 3" tube I'm working with only 60% of the 5" length used to develop the 850fps standard .45acp velocity of a 230gr pill.

How many rounds do you fire thru your carry piece before you are comfortable that that round will function each and every time you pull the trigger. Rule of thumb is somewhere between 200 and 300 rounds. At close to a buck a piece for performance JHP rounds, that's a lot of cash. What do you do if at round 150 you experience a FTF or FTE? Do you start over with the same ammo or do you switch brands and start over? Do you say simply 199 out of 200 is good enough?

A lot of experienced folks stoke their 9mm or .38 spl with expensive JHP in the expectation they will expand to .45" upon impact. I start with .452" and expect no expansion, maybe a tumble or two, but no expansion. I can shoot a thousand rounds of 230gr FMJ for the same $200 y'all will spend on your 200 magic bullets. Unless the pockets are very deep (as in the taxpayer is footing the bill) one should consider shooting large caliber FMJ over smaller caliber JHP.

JMHO,

Allan
 

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Re:

birdman said:
How many rounds do you fire thru your carry piece before you are comfortable that that round will function each and every time you pull the trigger. Rule of thumb is somewhere between 200 and 300 rounds. At close to a buck a piece for performance JHP rounds, that's a lot of cash.

JMHO,

Allan
That is precisely why I went with the Winchester 230 Gr. JHP (USA45JHP). They sell at Walmarts for about $16.95 per box of 50. You are able to afford practice with your carry ammo AND have the benefit of JHP.

If the JHP doesn't expand from your short barrel you then are shooting the equivalent of FMJ. Not so bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Interesting...
It's been my experience/opinion, with the .45 at least, as the barrel length DECREASED, my bullet weight did likewise! The only thing I increased was VELOCITY.
With a short-barreled .45 I like Cor-Bon's 165 gr. JHP that pops out of a 3 inch barrel at over 1100 fps. At least, that's what my Glock 30 eats.
Also: Remember that "White Box" Winchester (bulk packs), UMC, and the like are cheap for a reason! They simply don't have the QC more expensive ammo has.
Check sometime: you can find plain old 230 gr. ball in VERY expensive loadings!
Flyer
 

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The Master, John Moses developed his autos around FMJ projectiles. I'll not deviate from that, but thanks anyway.

5 inch brl, 7 round mag, 230gr FMJ
 

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Discussion Starter #8
wildames,
Well...
The .32 was JMB's favorite cartridge. He didn't even CARRY his 1911.
Flyer
 

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Re:

birdman said:
How many rounds do you fire thru your carry piece before you are comfortable that that round will function each and every time you pull the trigger. Rule of thumb is somewhere between 200 and 300 rounds. At close to a buck a piece for performance JHP rounds, that's a lot of cash.
You're right. It's a lot of cash. I've never done it myself. I run 200 - 300 rounds of various ball ammo through a psitol to make sure it's functioning the way I like, then I run 3 or 4 mags of the good stuff to see if it keeps functioning the way it did with the ball. Then I'm happy and personally secure.

After that, at least once every month during practice sessions, I'll dump the mag with the good ammo in it and continue with ball for the duration of the session. It keeps the good stuff in the mag recycled and fresh.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Midiman brings up an excellent point.
If you reload (and we both do, don't know about the rest of ya), you can craft a load that will dupe your favorite carry round's shooting characteristics, and shoot very cheaply.
In fact, this may be a very good reason to get into reloading!
No matter what your caliber choice, for under $100 you should be able to put together everything you need, including materials for your first batch of 500 rounds. This is with a single-stage press and Lee carbide dies.
It's going to take a while to load those rounds, but it's a great hobby, and a excellent excuse to shoot more often. (Honey, I spent all this TIME working on these rounds...)
Dear heavens... I just made a PRACTICAL suggestion!!!
I'm losin' it!!! :?
Flyer
 

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Re:

Flyer said:
for under $100 you should be able to put together everything you need, including materials for your first batch of 500 rounds. This is with a single-stage press and Lee carbide dies.
Good God, man... what are you selling them? I currently only reload match grade .223 ammo because all my pistols have cheaply available ammo. This will change in the spring when I pick up a .45... I will definitely be reloading that! I'm already picking up all the .45 brass I find at the range. But... I spent nearly $300 on the RCBS Master Reloader Kit which is a starter set with a single stage press... and easily blew another $200 on stuff that wasn't included before I started decapping my first case!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Naw, it can be cheap...
A single-stage Lee loader press, dies, maybe a hand-primer and simple powder measure...
Add correct powder, primers, and cast bullets (for anything but a Glock, of course, or HK), and it CAN be done for $100!
Of course, this isn't going to be MATCH ammo, by any means! But, it'll be cheap!
Flyer
 

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Well... since Christmas is over and we started this discussion, I decided to clean for an hour and a half and I finally found my reloading gear still bolted to my bench, right where I left it all last spring. Time to decap some .223
 

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HP is better than ball except for .22 and 25 where you'd better go for a brain shot instead.

I was rummaging around in my garage ammo dump for some .30 carbine rounds to take to the range when I happened upon an unopened case of Remington FMJ .25 auto from years ago.

I was disappointed it wasn't something else as I have long since learned to carry something better than a .25. But then I got to thinking hey I've got a Belgian baby Browning and a Beretta model 20 in the safe. What the heck? I like to shoot anything that goes bang. Now I'm looking forward to a future mousegun range trip just for kicks. I'll take my son, he loves shooting that baby Browning.
 

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Re:

Flyer said:
wildames,
Well...
The .32 was JMB's favorite cartridge. He didn't even CARRY his 1911.
Flyer
Flyer is correct. Also JMB originally developed the 1911 concept in .380. It was the US Army that demanded the more powerful .45 ACP.
 

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Regardless of caliber, I would use FMJ for defense in all of my autos. RNL, sometimes plated, for my 22lr semis. Hollowpoints for revolvers only. Just my prefs.
 

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here is how I currently look at it, The number one issus to me is that the gun shoots every time no matter what.
I have fired over 700 rounds of winchester FMJ (value pack) with no problems at all. I have fired a few mags of winchester HP silvertip, its also been perfect. I do not have enough money to practice with the HP so I practice with FMJ being that I have 100% of 700+ FMJ and only 100% of maybe 20 HP it is known that the fmj will always work. So being that the shells are the same I leave a HP in the pipe and FMJ for the mag.

anyone like to tell me why I should change?
 

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Demon440,

As Flyer pointed out, this is an age old debate. Some hail the virtues of hollowpoint ammo in handguns. Others do not agree that the hollowpoints are significantly superior. Shoot ammo in which YOU are confident. Your confidence means more than which ammo you choose, IMHO. Some, like E. Marshall will tell you otherwise. Defending one's self with a handgun is always a dicey deal. There's definitely enough evidence of that! You'll read where one BG takes 6 rounds of 357mag hollowpoints and drives himself to the hospital. Then on the same page you'll see where a BG was dropped DOA with a clip of 25acp. Then you'll read instances where the opposite happens. I personally use FMJ in my autos for defense. However, I admit that my primary defense gun is a snub 38 revolver. Nothing beats the speed into action or reliability of the double action revolver, IMHO. I am VERY CONFIDENT. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
wildames,
Well, if ya wanna get yerself killed using ball all the time, no one's gonna change yer mind...
But, a revolver is no longer the simplest handgun! In fact, the worst malfunction I've ever experienced was with a Smith 36.
It's more complicated to operate than a KT or Glock, and less pointable or controllable.
In short, it's harder to shoot, hence hit the target, hence save your life.
Oh yeah, this is a hollowpoint thread:
It would look better to a Grand Jury if you shot a guy once or twice with jhps, than completely full of holes with fmj.
Flyer
 
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