[marlin336]

I noticed today that the flattened area on my brass appears on the right side of the round as fired just below were the extractor grabs it. I originally thought the flat spot was caused by the ejector (on the left) but the flat area's location in relation to the extractor marks makes it appear that it strikes the lower edge of the ejection port during ejection. There are brass marks on the lower edge of the ejection port.

It appears that the ejector hits the back of the brass on the left side of the primer. The dislodged brass then strikes the lower edge of the ejection port which partially deflects it...sometimes straight back. :shock:

Due to the slight mass of the P3AT it is also likely that the muzzle will tend to rise sharply as each round is fired. This will often cause the deflected round to come straight at your head.

I think Flyer is right in that given the characteristics of this little pistol one must be very diligent to keep the wrist locked to discourage the muzzle flip.

I would be interested to know if all the ejection ports are uniform in design or if they have evolved like the assembly pin.

If someone could post a picture of a slide/port that has the brass to the head issue and someone could post one that does not we might be able to determine a pattern.

 

[Flyer]

While I've seen some change to the ramp design, I believe the ejection port's still the same as it's always been.
Yep, I get the same brass markings in the same places... this seems chronic to the P-3AT.
All I can say is that I'm still using #14X, with no brass to the head as long as it's gripped correctly!
Flyer

 

[Midiman]

OK... here's an inside/outside view of an H1T era gun that has never hit me in the head... close once... felt the case whiz through my hair.

 

[oldgranpa]

brass marks

Midi,
are those two yellow spots where brass has hit the slide?
I'm guessing you used a flood lamp to make the picture. I get the same yellowish/brown tint when I use a flood lamp. So I can't tell for sure if your pics are showing where brass hit.
og

 

[marlin336]

Midiman,

My slide/port looks like yours. I have never been hit either but did notice the deflection angle a couple time as the brass zipped out of the port. One came pretty close to my head late in the session when my hand/wrist was getting tired.

I had never related the flat spot on the brass to the ejection port before. I guess I never had a reason to until one came close to my head.

I wonder if some guns cause the dent/deflection to be greater than others or if it is ammo related.

Attached is a picture of some brass from my gun.

Left to Right (UMC, Magtech, Precision Ammo, Winclean, Hornady)

The Magtech is the stuff that came close to hitting me. The brass rim and shoulder were not always uniform and the walls seemed thicker than on the other brands. The thicker walls may have made it stiffer and more likely to deflect harder...not absorb as much of the force of impact with the ejection port.

Most of the ammo brands ejected back and slightly to the right but the Magtech stuff ejected straight back and over my head.

 

[Midiman]

Re: brass marks

Midi,
are those two yellow spots where brass has hit the slide?
og

No, they're lighting highlights. I looked all over for signs of brass deposits and found none.

 

[oldgranpa]

So then what?

So what everybody is saying, there is nothing we can do about the dented cases??

For head bonkers use a stiff grip......or duck!!

og

 

[Midiman]

Re: So then what?

So what everybody is saying, there is nothing we can do about the dented cases??

For head bonkers use a stiff grip......or duck!!

og

For the head bonkers, the grip seems to be at blame 95% of the time... what's the big deal with the dented brass? If you reload, your sizing die will straighten them out. I'd worry more about extractor damage to the rims of the cases on SOME brass if I planned to reload them.

 

[marlin336]

This is the first time that I have had any problem with ejected rounds coming near my head. It only happens with the Magtech ammo. I think the brass used might be stiffer than the UMC, Winchester, Hornady, etc. that I have used. I also had 3 FTE with the Magtech. It does not appear to be manufactured to the same quality/consistency as the others. The UMC seams to vary a little as far as powder load. Some feel a lot hotter that others from the same box.

I have never had any problem with any of my premium defensive ammo and that is the important thing.

If I ever do have a FTF or FTE issue with my defensive ammo then I will will be concerned. Right now it's just a minor inconvenience when shooting the practice ammo.

If the grip is also the cause of some peoples FTF/FTE issues then having to think about keeping your wrist locked when firing in an emergency situation would not be all that practical. You might be injured, off balance or at least focused on the threat and not your wrist.

 

[sub2k]

I put the Bersa finger extension and the handall Jr. on and I haven't had one brass in the head since. My wife and kids were 10-12 feet behind me and my wife took one in the head. That wasn't a good thing! They watched and said that the cases weren't coming anywhere near my head. For me it was definately a grip problem.

 

[marlin336]

sub2k,

Did you have any FTE before you started using the Bersa finger extension and the handall Jr?

None of the brass has hit me in the head but some of the MagTech brass did come close. I also had a couple FTE with it. It did appear to be a little hotter than the Winchester or UMC ball ammo. That may have contributed to muzzle flip.

I haven't had any problems with my Hornady XTP or Federal Hydra's.

 

[sub2k]

Hi Marlin,

I did have 6 FTE's out of 50 rounds of speer lawman. That was before I put the extensions on. I haven't used that ammo since so I'm not positive if it was the ammo or my grip. Since I put the extensions on I've fired 300 rounds of various ammo and not one FTE. I really feal that the extension made all the difference in the world for me.

 

[marlin336]

I ordered my Bersa finger extensions today. They should be here before my next range trip. I think I will try the bicycle tube instead of the Handall Jr and see if that helps tame the little beast. :shock: