[flyandscuba]

UPS brought this to my dealer for me today, and I went over without delay to pick it up. All I can say is, Wow! -- what a value! This is a fine $299 concealable .45 ACP firearm.

I haven't had a chance to shoot this one yet, but hope to do so over the holiday weekend. The single and double action trigger pulls are smooth and moderate in length. This pistol is also completely ambidextrous. Only the magazine release requires a switch over to make it a full-time lefty.

If you're looking for a moderately-priced .45 for concealed carry -- this may fill the void.... The next best thing from the hoped for KT P-4T5...

The second pic is special for Gun Nut :lol: Since he likes "business end" pictures!

 

[Flyer]

Nice weapon!
Oh yeah... nice to look down the bore of a pic and see a firing pin hole and not a HOLLOWPOINT!!! :shock:
Flyer

 

[Flick]

I hope yours works as good as mine. After reading Oldgrandpa extol the virtues of his I bought one. It has fired and ejected every round put through it. The only problem is that I have not located a good concealed carry holster. Graham made an IBW but discontinued it before I ordered. Good shooting and let's hear a range report

 

[Guest]

Fly, is that a Fobus holster? It looks like one but the finish appears different and there looks like the word "Houston" on the bottom of the paddle.

 

[packin heat]

probably a Houston Holster..they have a link from the Bersa/LLama & Firestorm website.

 

[flyandscuba]

Yep, Houston Holster. Very similar to Fobus in construction (and price), but the inside of the holster has a a fuzzy artificial suede lining. The outside fo the holster does have a grainy finish. Looks to be on par with Fobus quality-wise. They are made in Argentina.

 

[flyandscuba]

I figured I'd add a comparison picture of the Bersa Thunder 45 Ultra Compact with the KT P-40/P-357 and KT P-3AT.

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

My Thunder 45 has proven itself to be a reliable little 45. And a surprisingly comfortable shooter.

It fits "well enough" in an Alessi IWB holster I have for a Sig239. Well enough for normal pedestrian activities, it fell out once when wrestling with the dogs.

 

[oldgranpa]

holster and ammo

Flick, your holster problem may be solved if you check where scuba got his.
And scub has the correct ammo in the picture. I see no need to try anything other than Rem Golden Saber. I've not tried anything else since .45acp JHP ammo is not cheap and other brands are reported to be no better in the 3.6" barrel. So if the Rem GS functions in your Bersa stick with it for carry.
I don't shoot .45acp at the range but twice a year, spring and fall. Right now I'm messing with 9mm and .38 special, so nothing new on .45 to tell.
og

Oh! m'gosh! Flyer, forgive us for mentioning Remington and even scuba posting a picture of it. Wash your eyes out!

 

[flyandscuba]

OG,

Is your Bersa Thunder 45 barrel right hand twist? Mine is. I was looking at the serrated "petals" of the Rem. Golden Saber bullet -- it sure seems like they would open up better if fired from a barrel with a left hand twist.

It looks like it would open up with teeth like a saw blade...

Thoughts?

I ordered some Pow'Rball ammo in .45 ACP -- I might try some in the wet newspaper pack to see how they perform.

 

[flyandscuba]

I just pulled out my Series 70 Gold Cup National Match. It has a left hand twist. It would be interesting to shoot some of the Golden Sabers into the wet pack from each gun to compare.

 

[oldgranpa]

twist, turns, spin,

scuba,
I had to use a bright light and look close. The Bersa does have a right hand twist but it is very mild. Probably only about 1/4 turn in the 3.6" barrel. So it is not a severe twist and may not put too fast a spin on the bullet.
Examining the Golden Saber bullet seems to me has a right hand cut to the petals also. All this stuff is a big secret with ammo companies why they do things that way. Unless the centrifugal force from the spin was high enough I don't think the petals would open better with a left hand spin. Maybe your test would show something. Like if they do open faster with a left hand spin the bullet should mushroom sooner with lower penetration.
What little bullet dynamics I'm familiar with says the nose of the bullet in flight sees "laminar" flow and turbulence starts at the back end of the bullet. But that was with a 9mm FMJ bullet, as shown in the photo. The hollowpoint may have turbulence up front. Who knows? And like my youngest grandaughter says..who cares...as long as it does what it's supposed to.
So what you are suggesting is too high a tech for this old geezer.
I won't even suggest asking Flyer 'cause just the thought of looking at a Remington cartridge might nauseate him.
og.....the more I learn the dumber I get.

Edited to post a better picture of the bullet.

 

[Flyer]

I doubt if it's going to make a difference which way the rifling twists... the target's too thin!
A handgun's rifling is typically only a fraction as tight as a rifle... you're not likely to get many lightweight bullets that explode upon leaving the muzzle.
It's not uncommon for a .45 to have a twist as slow as 1:48... althought most are faster. Even so, the bullet isn't likely to go through even one full revolution as it ploughs through the target before exiting (in the case of a human body).
In the event it's fired into gelatin until it stops, there's a chance the fluids COULD have an effect on expansion via the twist... but a human jest ain't the same.
Flyer

 

[oldgranpa]

Edit

A better picture is now posted for the bullet in flight above.
og

 

[Midiman]

Flyer's right... human's jest ain't the same. When a .45 JHP hits one of them, it's hamburger time! I don't care which way it's spinning, flipping or tumbling... it's just gonna make a gooey mess.

 

[flyandscuba]

Here's an interesting photo from an ammo test with the 165 gr .45 ACP +P PowR'ball load going through a slice of ballistic gelatin...

Blows the jacket right off the bullet. Nice "wound cavity" though...

 

[oldgranpa]

bullet testing

scuba's picture shows the latest method being used to test bullet terminal performance. Mainly the INS (Border Patrol) is doing it this way. They want 9 -15" penetration in a large block of gelatin with expansion. But then they use the small blocks like the photo and measure velocity before and after hitting the block to calculate energy dump. And they are looking for about 400 ft.lbs. minimum energy this way. I believe the load scuba shows in his picture achieves that in .45cal. The loads we are trying, GS and GD are down in the 300 ft.lb. range. Some hot 9mm loads approach 400 ft.lbs. and most .380acp loads are in the 200 ft.lb. range. INS and FBI also require their ammo to penetrate glass and sheet metal and still meet the limits above.
But most of us are not cops so in most cases we can't even buy the ammo those guys are using. And we don't need to shoot thru glass or car doors ever, I hope.
That being the case, I'm not going to worry about it and just use what functions best in my pistol and gives fair results in the unballistic wetpack test. The newspaper wetpack is considered to be a much more severe test than gelatin and that's partly why I like it, plus the cost is free. And after several years of comparing results with experts like Goldenloki, ammolab, fedtactical, etc. I'm satisfied the wetpack at least gives us commoners an idea what our ammo will do.
My rule is, if the bullet don't expand or stay together with moderate penetration in wetpack it ain't no good. That's why I dumped the .32NAA 'cause it would just fly apart as soon as it hit the wetpack leaving only the jacket petals.
Well, enough bull from me. When I read the hightech stuff the experts are doing I just end up feeling doubly stupid.
FWIW,
og

 

[Flyer]

Cor-Bon .45 ammo will take you well over the 500 ft. lb. range... both 200 and 230 gr. loadings are around there, and their lighter 185 gr. load is around 530 ft. lbs..
Flyer

 

[flyandscuba]

The Pow'Rball 165gr load is advertising 1225 fps & 550 ft/lbs. :shock:

 

[Guest]

Now, lets see...guns that I now have to have becasue of this blasted site...

1. Bersa 45
2. Makarov 9x18
3. Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 special
4. Sub 9000

At this rate I am already broke and I haven't bought anything yet....