[Midiman]

We offer this up as an alternative to KTOG which has been mismanaged for years. It's all new to us and the rules may be in an embryonic state. We do not wish to censor opinions... but the problems that have plagued KTOG... WILL NOT be a recurring theme here. If you've come to troll... troll quick! If you have a legitimate complaint (problem would be a better way to phrase it), please feel free to talk about it here if you're looking for a solution. If you're just looking to crab and moan... go to KTOG. Have fun... we intend to.

 

[BrazilNut]

I'm pretty new to KTOG. I haven't noticed anything particularly bad yet.

At the risk of trolls and flames and all that bad stuff...can you give me an idea of what is happening on KTOG that you are getting away from and don't want to follow you here?

 

[Midiman]

Re:

can you give me an idea of what is happening on KTOG that you are getting away from and don't want to follow you here?

http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6163
http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5957&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

a) Trolls
b) An administration that sides with trolls
c) An administration that labels some of it's most prolific contributors as troublemakers instead of the trolls

Enough said.

 

[Buck]

So it sounds like in a nutshell, on this board persistent repeated, generalized, negativism toward Kel Tec products will not be tolerated.

Please edify if this is not accurate.
Also, are there any other distinguishing rules or features?

 

[KeysBear]

Buck, and Brazilnut,
Welcome to KTrange.

The three administrators have decided to give everyone a chance to feel welcome here, and we do mean everyone. We all share a dislike for censorship, and over-moderation. However, talking about real gun problems, as contrasted to continual Kel-Tec bashing are two entirely different activities.

One thing that I will not tolerate at all is insulting the membership of our forum as a whole. I see no difference between that activity and a direct personal attack on an individual member. That was what I thought should have been a reason for a severe reprimand of one of the troublemakers at KTOG. Talking about gun problems, and even bringing up some problems from the past is regular gun forum behavior. Wholesale attacks on the manufacturer and the membership base are a useless waste of our web space. If someone doesn't like Kel-Tec products or Kel-Tec enthusiasts they should go start their own site. Of course, they don't have to do that because they appear to already have a home on the web.

Maybe one day KTOG will wise up and smell the coffee as to how this negative activity drives off a lot of good people. I prefer to not dwell on the negatives from there. Let's talk about our guns, and share a few laughs.

Best regards, Keys 8)

 

[KeysBear]

Re:

I'm pretty new to KTOG. I haven't noticed anything particularly bad yet.

At the risk of trolls and flames and all that bad stuff...can you give me an idea of what is happening on KTOG that you are getting away from and don't want to follow you here?

Brazilnut,
I wanted to address this post. I have viewed all of your posts at KTOG and to me you are a welcome contributor here. From what I have seen you have engaged in honest discussions and were trying to be helpful at KTOG. As we have commented on in the past, sometimes the newcomers don't yet see the entire picture, or know the whole history behind some of the more talented naysayers. No flames or troll labeling risk for you here from us. Enjoy the board, and have some fun.

Best regards, Keys 8)

 

[Guest]

Midiman, now that is a more user friendly pic!

 

[Buck]

Midiman, I've now seen first hand what you are talking about.

I figured I'd be open minded and keep tabs on both boards and just see what transpired. I saw someone make a profane, disrespectful attempt at a sarcastic attack on someone but in my opinion it came across obnoxious, like somebody too loud and drunk. Anytime you call someone something that can't be said on television, I consider it disrespectful whether you are smiling or not (which can't well be conveyed in print). I reported it as being unquestionably out of line which it was.

To the moderators credit they removed it. The offender opened a thread on the feedback admin section wondering why his post was deleted and was molly coddled in my opinion. I added my opinion that he should have been booted, and he said to check my private messages and sent a couple of groundless insulting messages. Perhaps anyone deserves a second chance, after a warning before being booted. The moderators said "...The inappropriate posts were not too bad...", so I didn't bother to report the pm's as I lost respect for them at that point.

There is no point in being angry with trolls, they will always be there. It is those who allow them to continue their behavior who are to blame.

This board seems more respectful in tone and I trust you will endeavor to keep it that way. Thanks and every good wish.

 

[KeysBear]

Buck,
We've been watching the old board as well. I saw the posts you refer to. I've also seen the attacks on us, including the continued attempts to label us in what I consider an unfair manner. I too have received some not very polite private messages, but I must say that the positive ones have outnumbered the negatives ten to one. I hope you continue to feel welcome here, and enjoy participating at KTrange. Thanks for the good wishes.

Best regards, Keys 8)

 

[yzguy]

please don't come over here and insult me, just because someone was not booted at your request.... Just trying to keep the peice over there without having to boot people. Ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe you misinterpreted??? everyone will be given the benifit of the doubt...

 

[Midiman]

Re:

please don't come over here and insult me, just because someone was not booted at your request.... Just trying to keep the peice over there without having to boot people. Ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe you misinterpreted??? everyone will be given the benifit of the doubt...

As if they aren't insulting us to the tune of 5 pages in the "New Board" thread over there... am I running there whining about it?

 

[KeysBear]

Re:

please don't come over here and insult me, just because someone was not booted at your request.... Just trying to keep the peice over there without having to boot people. Ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe you misinterpreted??? everyone will be given the benifit of the doubt...

yzguy,
Glad you registered here, but our members are free to voice their opinions. Midi is right. You've let people insult and bash us on your forum. I have already sent you a PM regarding your post here, so it's not like I'm calling you out on it in public first. Buck's comments were about your moderator team. You're coming here taking it personally. I'm okay with what he said. We haven't whined at your place, as tempting as it might have been.

Regards, Keys 8)

 

[Buck]

yzguy, sorry you see it that way; as you say it is easy to be misinterpreted. I respect your posts as I recall and especially your website with helpful tips. I was conciously trying not to name names. You were not the moderator who made the quote, but I suppose we're all judged by the company we keep. Did you even see it before it was deleted?

I stand by my statements and opinions, though I acknowledge that anyone probably deserves a 2nd chance if not too blatantly offensive. Beyond that our opinions might differ. I prefer a more orderly forum where disagreement is welcome so long as it remains respectful.

 

[Flyer]

Originally posted by Buck:
There is no point in being angry with trolls, they will always be there. It is those who allow them to continue their behavior who are to blame.

This board seems more respectful in tone and I trust you will endeavor to keep it that way. Thanks and every good wish.

Guess the remaining one of us outta drag himself in here and make it unanimous...
yz, I RARELY disagree with you on much of anything. But, take a look at the quote above. It's the truly applicable portion of Buck's narrative.
Man oh man, did we try keeping **** a clean place!
I won't presume to speak for Midi or Keys. However, I know that I, anyhow, was presented as the rough equivalent of everything between a re-incarnation of Joseph Stalin, in regards to free speech; Adolf Hitler in terms of simple bias and cultural bigotry, and a KT double-agent on top of all the above.
Why? Because I believed in what I said and wouldn't budge.
I DO understand the tough situation you find yourself in, here. The simple truth is, we created KTRange to be that zone of free speech and ideas that caused certain members of **** to libelize us with such nauseating regularity about trying to ban in the first place.
Talk about being misunderstood!!!
Hopefully we can bury this issue now and just get back to posting about guns, their use and repair, and even alien abduction. It's not just about fixing or maximizing our guns; it's about having a place to come to unwind, keep up to date, and even have a bit of fun and relaxation. Let's all enjoy ourselves and move on.
Flyer

 

[KeysBear]

Flyer,
Glad you're still alive and uh, kicking. Hope you get over your walking (typing) pneumonia soon.

Regards, Keys 8)

 

[CompanyMan]

I have 3 Kel Tecs, a P32 and P3AT that I love, and a Sub2000 that I hate. I hope I have not offended you all by posting on all three. I was unaware of "trolling" issues and breakaway board stauts when I signed up last night.

 

[flyandscuba]

CompanyMan,

Midiman is very familiar with the "issues" around the Sub2000 carbines. Describe some of the reasons why you hate the Sub2K. If it is a performance issue, the folks on this site might be able to offer some suggestions to make it better.

I have a Sub2K in 9mm with the S&W magazines. Mine has performed well. I did have some ejection port errosion prior to installing the free metal clip I learned of from Midiman and provided free of charge by KT.

Mine seems to eat everything I feed it and is quite accurate. I installed the flashlight mount and laser sight -- which makes it more fun to shoot!

Don't let the personal/political issues referred to about the other site's experiences concern you. Everyone here seems to me to be upfront, open, and with a genuine desire to make our shooting experiences with the KT firearms more successful and enjoyable.

Hope you'll stick around and continue to post.....I like learning as much as I can from the others on here.

 

[KeysBear]

CompanyMan,
The "history problem" that you are referring to was not concerning people who gave honest opinions about real problems. I, like many, first came looking for Kel-Tec talk because I was having a feeding issue with my P-11. Some light feed ramp polishing, some better gun lube, and switching to lighter grain bullets (as well as learning how to properly hold onto the dang thing) helped to solve my early problems. Now that my P-11 is broken in I have every confidence that it will deliver 11 rounds for sure if called upon. Talk to Midiman about your SUB-2K issues. There are little fixes that might help you turn yours into a beloved keeper.

There is no point to having a gun board if you can't talk about tech problems. That would be stupid. But if someone wants to post day after day about how Kel-Tecs are just POS guns, then there are other forums that don't mind that kind of agenda. Believe me, you can go to the moon and back complaining about your gun here and nobody will take offense. The difference between honest discussion and what was going on at the old place was more like the distance from the Earth to the Sun.

Stick around and speak your mind freely. Kick back and relax, get to know us - you're among friends. Welcome.

Regards, Keys 8)