[ruger]

I like a lot of other people on this forum read Marshall's data, wonder if JHP or FMJ is best etc etc. Last week, according to the newspaper account, a fellow attempted an armed robbery of a deliveryman. The deliveryman fired his 9mm 15 times at close range and medical authorities indicated at least 10 hit the target. As reported, the bad guy was still standing after 15 rounds and then went down.

The article did not mention what type of ammo was used but it was ruled a justified shooting.

I'm sure many will have an explanation but this appears to be the exception!

 

[Flyer]

Well, sure there are stopping power failures, with ANY round.
During my Leo training days, one of our textbooks included autopsy photos and x-rays of a perp that had taken 33 9mm jhps before a cop came up from behind and ended it with a 12 gauge slug in the base of the skull.
This guy had bullets in his brain, eyes, nose, everywhere... he was actually blind (severed optic nerves) as he kept reloading and firing.
In most cases the 9mm will do it's job just fine, though... with HOLLOWPOINTS!
I wouldn't even carry a .45 with ball ammo.
Flyer

 

[packin heat]

jeez!! he was so full of holes that he whistled when he walked!
(rimshot)

 

[Clark]

I am hung up on my one thought about 357 mag 125 gr statistics on one shot stops, "Maybe that load makes so much noise that the shooter is shocked without his headphones on, and pauses, giving the perp a chance to colapse."

Maybe the 125 gr 357 mag is so loud that the perp pauses and that precludes a second shot.

Also, maybe with 5 rounds to be left on tap vs 15 rounds, the first shot is aimed better from a revolver.


Anyway, from my extensive experiments with crows, owls, coyotes, dogs, raccoons, goats, sheep, pigs, geese, chicken roosters, and turkeys that I killed on my farm:

Body shots often have no effect.
Multiple body shots often have no effect.

The things that always work are:
Shots to the neck or brain
Cutting the throat
Hitting on the top of the head with a framing hammer



So my plan for an attack is that I will put seven shots from a .380 throught the body, and then rope the dope. I will just keep fighting in a stalling way and wait for those body shots to slow him down.

 

[KeysBear]

....., who has a valid license to carry a firearm, said he planned to buy another handgun and go back to work with a different pizza business.

I bet it won't be a 9mm he buys this time.

Regards, Keys 8)

 

[Midiman]

Re:

I am hung up on my one thought about 357 mag 125 gr statistics on one shot stops.

You should be. One shot stops are a myth. Nothing will provide that if you don't hold up your end... and in the middle of a "situation", your end can get surprisingly hard to hold up.

 

[Flyer]

Yep, one-shot stops are NOT to be expected. HOPED for, but not expected...
A few years back a restaraunt, a man came in with a shotgun and proceeded to shoot the cash register, then point the gun at the customers.
The manager came out of the back room with a Smith M-19 .357, 6 inch barrel, 125 grainers.
He filled the guy with all six shots... he just stood there.
He reloaded the Smith and filled him with another six... and he still just stood there.
He was reloading a THIRD time when the guy finally fell flat on his face.
Shot placement is key!
Flyer

 

[strider72]

I am comfortable carrying a 9mm and have been for years. However, I agree that everybody puts too much in the mythical "one-shot stop" horse****. If I have to fire in defense of my life, be it with my P32,G19,or my P11, I am firig until the threat is neutralised, be it one shot or fifty. But, and this is a BIG BUT,if you don't hit the SOB's in a crucial spot, it don't matter if you're using a .500 S&W Magnum or a .22LR.

 

[Mr Jody Hudson]

One thing to remember about one shot stops... they never say HOW LONG it took to stop.

A shot glass full of water is a one shot stop... but it may take 99 years for the stop to take effect after you give the guy a shot of water... to drink.

I have NO admiration for any of that One Shot Stop stuff; there is so much more to the story...

 

[rctxag]

I will not listen to anyone that tells me my P-11 or P-32 are not adequate for self defense until they stand downrange and prove to me they wouldn't mind being shot with one of them.

Why do I need a one stop shot? I have 11 of them ready to go.

 

[Midiman]

There are no magic bullets.... only magic shooters.

 

[Flyer]

There are no magic bullets.... only magic shooters.

Bingo!!!
Young feller, ya've struck oil!!!
Flyer

 

[Guest]

I think that alot of the hype is left over from 15 years ago when the only 9mm HP on the market was the 115gr Winchester Silvertip. This coincidentally was the first HP that I carried as a LEO and it seemed to be adopted by everyone at the time. They were very popular but very poor performers. I can't remember specifics but it seemed that they were many shootings where these rounds were just not amounting to much. Well, this stigma has never seemed to leave the 9mm. With todays technology and everyone striving to build a better mousetrap the 9mm has evolved considerably. I really like the 9mm for many reasons and with the manufacturers on the market today there are many quality rounds. I have come to use either the 124gr +p Speer Gold Dot or the 124gr +p Remington Golden Sabre. I feel perfectly safe getting into a shootout with either of these two rounds. I guess since I have to carry 147gr Subsonics for work, I can feel really safe with the aforementioned stuff.

Just my .02 worth

 

[TexReserve]

Stopping power of a 9mm

We had an officer involved shooting last year. Officer fired one shot to the chest, perp fell rather quickly and died very shortly thereafter. If he were alive, he would probably tell you that shot placement has a lot to do with stopping power. :wink:

 

[madman]

Paging OG, Paging OG! OG, where are you?
Have you done any 9mm wetpack tests? I'm interested in 9mm stopping power, and particularly the stopping power from Starfire JHPs. I don't have a P11, but I did just pick up a G26 today (yah, Flyer, I still intend to get a G36, but the dealer didn't have a 36 available, and he gave me a good price on the 26), so suddenly 9mm data is relevant to me. I always swore I wouldn't buy a 9mm, but given the advances in ammo noted above and given the small size and 10-round capacity, I felt a G26 would fill my need for a more powerful, yet still pocketable pistol. A G27 and maybe a G33 are still on my "going to get" list, just below the G36.

Anyhoos, now that I've digressed -- OG, I don't remember seeing any 9mm results in your previous wetpack tests, but I haven't looked them up yet. Are there any to find, or am I wasting my time looking?

 

[Flyer]

Go to the Home page and look under Articles.
All of oldgranpa's tests have been put there for easy reference.
Flyer

 

[madman]

Thanks! Never occurred to me to check "articles" -- I figured I'd have to spend an hour or more searching through every post with the words "wetpack", or "newspaper", etc... Very good info, actually. Thanks, Flyer, for pointing me in the right direction, and thanks OG for doing the tests!