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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today was the third range session with my new P3AT, but it was the first since my light [email protected] The same thing happened that has happened before. The first 40 rounds are flawless and then after 40 it starts to have double feeds. I am having a hard time diagnosing what the problem is. I am inclined to believe that it is a combination of light limp wristing and lack of lube. I will clean it before I shoot it again but I am not sure that I am applying a sufficient amount. Could I need more that is usual for most guns or am I asking for additional problems with alot of lube that attracts dirt and dust. I like this little gun but I am getting frustrated because nothing seems to be working to get 50 flawless rounds out of this. I don't want to send this back to KT, what can they do that I haven't done? I am not inclined to do anymore [email protected] either as I do not want to start altering parts with more sanding. I guess I am looking to see if anyone else is having any similiar problems and if they did something to resolve them. I will say that I have not given up yet. A good cleaning and another trip to the range to see what happens. I am going to attempt to figure out how to order a Bersa finger rest and see if this helps. Since this is a pocket gun I am not inclined to order one becasue I am not big on them and I don't think that Bersa will let me borrow one to see if it fixes anything. LOL Maybe after 40 rounds it will help me keep a better grip on the gun. I have a hard time believing that I am limp writsting, I have been a LEO firearms instructor for over 10 years and this is something that I am VERY aware of. (it has also never been a problem for me in the past.) I am sure that this has been beaten to death in the past but I wasn't sure where to post it and usually this makes me feel better if nothing else....

Regards.
 

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Seems to me you might try switching lubes and see if that helps...
The P-3AT doesn't like dirt at ALL... and some lubes will attract enough after 40 rounds to kill reliable function, while others will go on for hundreds!
Remember to clean your mags, also, and DON'T LUBE the inside of them, only give the spring a light coat of oil.
Break-Free has never let me down, and really go EASY, if you're using any grease at all.
Flyer
 

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Maybe powder residue build-up

I have put 110 rounds through my gun no problems!, but I noticed a lot of powder residue build-up in both my 380 and P-11. If it would be me! I would shoot 20 rounds then wipe it out real good around the extractor area, then fire 20 more and so on and see if this takes care of it. Also wipe out the feed ramp every 20.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I usually do an initial cleaning with Gun Scrubber then I finish with a soft bristle brush with Hopps #9. A wipe down and a light coat of oil and it's ready to go. I haven't done anything to the mags except clean the follower with a small patch with Hopps. I'll try firing 25 rounds next time a mild cleaning and then the other 25. I guess this seems odd becase all of my other guns can go hundreds of rounds in a session with no maintenance.
 

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My Bullseye match guns are as tight as they come. I fire 90 rnds of 22lr and 180 rnds of 45acp in a match. I only wipe the chamber/extractor area, without disassembly. I only break them down every 5 matches.

My point is that these guns are TIGHT. Is the Kel-Tec THAT tight?
 

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wildames,
You're talking about full size guns! They can blow right through crud that'd stop a small pistol so bad you'd need a hammer to cycle the slide!
Take my Les Baer 1911, for instance... I've got many thousands of rounds through it, and still need a bushing wrench to take it down. But, it's never jammed!
Flyer
 

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Re:

Flyer said:
Remember to clean your mags, also, and DON'T LUBE the inside of them, only give the spring a light coat of oil.
I rarely take issue with anything Flyer says but I disagree with oiling the mag spring... when it contracts it may hit the side of the mag walls... leaving possible ammo/oil contact which is never good. I never lube my springs, I replace them when needed. I can't count how many different magazines I have here... and only one... a very cheap ProMag came from the factory with an oiled spring... I haven't checked my P-3AT mags tho.
 

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If cleaning works, try a different ammo

I forgot to tell you in my reply above!, if you find that wiping it out every 25 rounds works!, this means it was a powder residue problem!. Some ammo burns cleaner then others, try a different brand and you may beable to go hundreds of rounds before needing to clean it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am still inclined to believe that I am in the break in period. That after more rounds "banging" through the gun that things will smooth out. I have to remember that this gun is not a Glock or a Smith. Not that they are better but having owned these they just seemed to require less maintenance to get started. I have two other KT's that run fine and I kind of expect a gun to run right the first time out of the box. I am however, not ready to give up on the P3AT. I have to keep reminding myself that this is a shoot a little carry alot type of gun. I have read other posters on here that say that no gun is reliable until they get 200 rounds successfully through it and others that say that they have had no problems right out of the box. I guess I should prefice this with an explanation of sorts, my first experience with KT's was a used P32 that has ran flawlessly. The next was a used P11 that has run flawlessly. The third was a NEW P3AT that has run mostly with it's share of feed and reliability problems. (Both of the previous KT's were not [email protected]'d by the previous owners) Am I expecting too much out of this gun, are others claims exaggerated? I don't know. It just seems that I have a gun that while it is not unique to it's share of problems, it is in the "rule" not the exception category. I would be sastisfied with 50 trouble free rounds and then I would carry it as a BUG/when nothing else will fit gun. It is tough to get to that point and still feel that it will do what is required of it when the SHTF. My KAHR for instance had a few hiccups when I shot it right out of the box. Now that I have gotten over the 200 round mark with it, it is running smooth as glass. Will the P3AT ever get there, I hope so. In the mean time it will reside in the safe next to the Glocks, KAHR's, Kel-Tec's and Smith's until such time as I feel that the bugs are worked out. In the meantime, I will keep reading posts and hopefully someome with a similiar problem will post a remedy or it might work itself out, whichever comes first... :D

Regards...
 

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I can give you a probable remedy, right now.
Since the pistol is running fine for the first 40 rounds, then begins to malfunction, that suggests three possibilities, two gun-related:
1 - You're getting tired and therefore limpwristing.
2 - Your recoil springs aren't great and should be replaced, preferably with heavier springs.
3 - Your slide to frame fit is rough.
If you're willing to F&B a little, take some 220 grit paper and fold it in half. Put it over a popsicle stick or something similar that'll fit easily into the rail groove in the slide. Now, run this through the groove, removing any rough areas contacting the frame. I polish the inside of my slide grooves until there's no blue left in it at all, being sure to keep everything square (reason for the stick).
Finish up with 400 or finer grit, getting as close to a mirror-finish as you can. Then, clean carefully, lube, and re-assemble.
This is likely to solve your problem, if it's the slide fit. Changing the springs is a good idea anyhow.
Flyer
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You know Flyer, the springs never came to mind..... :oops: Where is a good place for recoil springs. And, I did polish the slide rails and grooves a little but it could use some extra attention. See, that what this site is all about........ :D I'll give it a try over the new year holiday....thanks.

Regards..
 

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malfunction

norf, i'm sure you've heard the old axiom that you"can't teach an old dog new tricks".... well, i'm older than dirt. i still believe in powdered graphite. i think that with use you get a burnishing effect that enhances the interface that can't be accomplished with the "modern" wonder lubes. it does not attract the byproducts of powder ignition. it is not a corrosion inhibitor but it is a premier friction eliminator. the trigger action on my p11 was so enhanced by using graphite it's unbelievable. i also swear by white lithium. it stands up well to friction heat and to my way of thinking almost repels residue. i have put 50 rds thru my p11 and have minimal gunk in my gun. it's like having a bunch of ball bearings in your gun. if you think that crud is at the bottom of your problems, give graphite a try. regards :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re:

norfdet893 said:
And, I did polish the slide rails and grooves
I can't remember where I read it at but I don't believe your supposed to be doing any polishing on the slide grooves on the gun frame. Your supposed to leave the black finish on it there because it's supposed to keep the steel slide off of the soft aluminum to prevent premature wear. Maybe somebody else can refresh my memory on this since I'm like Byron, older than dirt and they say the memory is the second thing to go...I can't remember what the first one was :lol:

Rook
 

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Rook,
Yep, you're right, no polishing on the frame rail! Just the slide. The anodizing on the frame is harder than the aluminum underneath, and protects it...
Flyer
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I polished the tracks (slide grooves?) that run along the inside of the slide. It was late when I typed. I have not polished anything of the frame.
 

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polishing

Just my 2c. Also polish the long narrow ramp in the top back of the slide. This is the part that is pushing the next to top round in the magazine forward during cycling. (Far fetched idea, but if this ramp pushed the round forward enough it would pop up out of the magazine during cycling and could cause your problem.) It comes a little rough in the new pistol and gets worse, sooty, with long firing. See my analysis of this ramp in the Smiley Philosopy thread.
I wish I knew what kind of lub to put on it that would prevent the soot from sticking.
og..............probably don't know what I'm talking about. So ignore this if you want.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I did polish that area when I did my [email protected] I still have to clean it and shoot again. I am convinced of two things;

1. the more I fire it the better it will get
or
2. For it's intended use as a BUG, it will atleast get the 7 rounds out of the magazine and on target.
 
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