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Thread: NEW BALLISTICS SECTION, PART 1

  1. #21
    KTrange Contributor oldgranpa's Avatar
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    19 - Beretta Tomcat

    Article 19 Beretta Tomcat
    At my previous range visit in August a mysterious loss of a round occured with my new Beretta Tomcat .32acp. The last round was found on the ground after 5 rounds fired OK and the slide cycled OK. A search of the old Beretta forum revealed a thread that explained this can happen due to the magazine follower being polished smooth. The last round then has no friction to slow it down and it jumps out of the breach before chambering. The best fix offered was cut a groove in the back of the follower to engage the cartridge rim and hold it momentarily. I cut a few scratches with my dremel and then went to the range. While there I ran a small wetpack test with the Tomcat. Picture below shows grooves on back of follower and the test results with Silvertip ammo to compare with the short test posted in the P32 forum. I had no more "lost" rounds and the pistol now functions fine.
    og
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  2. #22
    KTrange Contributor oldgranpa's Avatar
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    20 - Wetpack Test with Russian Ammo for the 9x18 Makarov

    Article 20 Wetpack Test with Russian Ammo for the 9x18 Makarov
    byron and I decided to do a wetpack test with Russian ammo for the 9x18 Makarov. byron provided the Barnaul 95gr HP from the JSC Barnaul Machine-Tool Plant which I could not obtain without buying a brick. I already had the LVE 115gr Brown Bear HP from the Novosibirsk Low-Voltage Equipment Plant Plc that I used in the preliminary test. We compared these with Hornady's 95gr JHP and also fired a few rounds of FMJ from Barnaul and Federal. Previously, the only good data on 9x18 ammo was by Goldenloki and some limited work by Stephen Camp. But, as mentioned in my prelim test report, Stephen let the water drain out of his wetpack. We always wet ours down at the range before firing so it is sloppy wet. Only other available 9x18 data was in a book listing one data point in gelatin with mainly USA ammo. You can't draw a statistic with only 1 data point so we discounted that data. That's just one of the big disadvantges with gelatin.
    Our results shown below held a surprise with the Barnaul HP ammo as all rounds separated from the jacket at 5" and the lead slug continued to penetrate without expansion. The Brown Bear ammo was again the best performer but the Hornady also gave good results. All ammo fired without any problem in the Bulgarian Makarov used for the tests.
    Note our picture shows the Barnaul FMJ round instead of the HP. Both look alike with the same color case and bullet. With ammo everywhere, I didn't notice that when I made the photo and just grabbed the closest box, which also looks the same. It's also very easy to verify the Hornady ammo 'cause the Russian ammo is all steel cases and steel jackets. I just use a small pocket magnet to check. The Hornady is all brass and copper jackets and non-magnetic. Just in case you wondered.
    Best wishes, from,
    og and byron...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BALLISTICS SECTION, PART 1-oldcootsmakarovtest2_1_.jpg  
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  3. #23
    KTrange Contributor oldgranpa's Avatar
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    21 - 32cal Handgun Wetpack Tests

    Article 21 32cal Handgun Wetpack Tests
    .32cal handguns compared to the P32
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A rare opportunity to compare several of the top .32cal handguns was realized at the range this week with 4 of my friends that own some of the 32's tested. In the photo you see the results of wetpack tests with these guns. Below is a legend for the photo you will need to understand the results.

    Legend for 32cal Handgun Wetpack Test photo.

    ST = Winchester 60gr Silvertip
    GD= Speer 60gr GoldDot
    ww= Winchester 71gr FMJ
    MT= MagTech ?gr JHP
    GZ= Glazer pellet bullet

    1 - 3 ST, .312” no exp. 7” penet.

    4 ST, .450”exp, 5” penet
    5 ST, .465” w/jacket sep, 5” penet
    6 ST, .390” partial exp, 5” penet

    7 ST, .470”exp, 4” penet
    8 ST, .459”exp, 4” penet
    9 ST, .403”partial exp, 5+ penet
    10 GD, .312”no exp, 8” penet
    11 ww, .312”no exp, 9+” penet

    12 ST, .505”exp, 6” penet
    13 ST, .509”exp, 6” penet
    14 GD, .312”cavity wider, 7” penet
    15 ww, .312”no exp, 9+” penet

    16 ST, .525”exp, 5” penet
    17 ST, .503”exp, 5” penet
    18 ST, .528”exp, 5” penet
    19 ST, .480”exp, 5” penet
    20 MT, .426”exp, 7” penet
    21 GZ, 5” penet w/many .024” pellets

    22 Fed 32HRmag, 85gr from 2” S&W,
    .394”exp, 9” penet

    23 Fed 32HRmzg, 85gr from 4” S&W,
    .390”exp, 11” penet.

    Real disappointing was the Speer 60gr GoldDot. In an older test with the P32 it showed expansion, but that was a different lot of ammo. The Seecamp did not produce any expansion with it's short barrel. Best expansion with ST was with the Walther PPK32, but it's a hard pistol to find and runs $475 and up. Draw your own conclusions from the photo but note these are not "FBI approved", "ballistic", etc. tests. Just some fun comparisons of various .32 pistols. (P32 still "rules". )
    og
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    disclaimer!
    In no way are we trying to say which ammo or pistol is the best. Read lots of opinions by others, run your own tests, then the choice is yours. (Of course, I like the P32. My Beretta is nice, too, a little heavier.) And in no way are we trying to suggest the .32acp is the CCW gun you should carry. That choice is yours to make and live (or die) with.
    for those new to the ktrange, go to the Articles section for a description of what a wetpack is. Remember the 2/3 rule for comparing penetration to gelatin. Multiply by 3 and divide by 2 to get an approximate "gelatin" penetration number for comparison with FBI data, etc. I like around 6 - 7 inches minimum penetration in the wetpack (equals 9 to 13 inches in gelatin). Five or less inches is kinda borderline and over 10 inches is close to over penetration. The human torso averages about 9.5" COM (not including the heavy weight characters that go to our local buffet and load up 5 plates )
    We don't accept flames here about our wetpack tests since we have always said they are just for fun comparison of ammo and pistols. Better than no test, and the wetpack is free.
    Of course, I was banned from the stoppingpower site for suggesting that the results might be useful. Whatever.
    og
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BALLISTICS SECTION, PART 1-32cal_handguns_1_.jpg  
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  5. #24
    KTrange Contributor oldgranpa's Avatar
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    22 - Final P32 WetPack Test with CorBon

    Article 22 Final (not really) Wetpack Test with CorBon ammo
    This test is in reply to several questions regarding what CorBon ammo will do in the P32. I found a new box of the CorBon 60gr JHP that a dealer just got in. The bullet looks different than what I tested 2 years ago, the copper jacket is heavier, the lead softer, and the shape is more rounded like ball, OAL is 0.909", a little less than my previous round due to the lower profile bullet. Expansion was very good and penetration adequate with all 5 shots, with the jacket loose from the bullet but still in one piece. I shot all 5 from one magazine with no sign of rimlock. But I did have 1 FTE due to limp wristing on my part. If you shoot this +p round get a good grip, lock your wrists, and straighten your arms to avoid limp wristing. Noise and recoil is considerably greater than std. ammo brands so I don't recommend the CorBon for lots of target practice, more wear on your pistol and more expensive too. But it will be a good round for LEO's who carry a P32 for a deep conceal backup gun. Expansion began at 2 - 3 inches into the pack with tremendous "wound profiles" as the petals opened. This is no "one-shot-stop" (whatever that is) but a few rounds of this is gonna cause severe pain trauma and change a BG's mind about attacking you.
    I shot a few rounds of Federal HydrShok and FMJ into the pack just for "calibration" comparison with the usual results, less expansion and more penetration. Expansion and penetration are always a trade-off.
    Have fun,
    og
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BALLISTICS SECTION, PART 1-corbon_wetpack_1_.jpg  
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  6. #25
    KTrange Contributor oldgranpa's Avatar
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    23 - 22Magnum WetPack Test

    Article 23 .22magnum Wetpack Test (first test)
    What about .22magnum?? It's mainly a rifle cartridge, but how about from a handgun??

    After reading dozens of websites proclaiming the virtues of the .22caliber magnum cartridge in both rifles and handguns, I concluded these people were "rationalizing" about handgun performance rather than stating dependable facts. We all tend to do that. When we purchase something we're not sure about we rationalize ourselves into thinking we did the right thing only to end up later selling it or trading it at a loss.
    Well, none of the many sites I found had any terminal ballistic data for the .22mag from handguns showing expansion and penetration results in gelatin, water, wetpaper, mud, pigs, etc.(Goldenloki has some 22LR data but no 22Mag and Ricardelli had only one 22mag data point in a water jug with a round fired from a rifle that fragmented). Not even the great M&S lists it in their 3rd book. A few writers mentioned penetration in dry phone books. But nothing I could really point to and say the .22magnum is better or worse than any other caliber from a handgun. There was a gap between reality and fiction.
    My dealer had several 22mag handguns available at bargain prices so I decided to find out for myself if 22mag was any good. I purchased a Heritage "Rough Rider" 22LR/22Mag combination revolver 4-1/2"barrel, a Cobra 22mag derringer 2.4"barrel, and an NAA 22mag mini revolver 1-1/8"barrel. Initially I only function fired the Heritage (excellent) and the Cobra (terrible trigger, over 15lb pull). The Cobra also had a hazardous problem initially with the top firing pin protruding at all times preventing the hinged barrel from closing with a round in the chamber. This could have caused a really bad AD if the barrel was 'slamed shut' with a loaded round. I found I could correct it myself by simply removing the cover plate and grinding the removable firing pin tip down. I did this before I test fired the gun. But then found out the trigger was terrible. In addition, the "effective" barrel length of the Cobra 22mag is really only 1.07" considering the length of the cartridge, which is actually less than the 1.125" barrel of the NAA revolver. So the Cobra went back to the dealer as part payment for the NAA.
    My range reopened and I was able to conduct the wetpack test with results shown in the photo. Basically, the results were pitiful, except for good penetration. Not shown in the photo is the result of firing 1 shotshell ("snake shot") round (CCI WMR, 1/8oz #12shot) at the wetpack. From 6' the pattern covered 8"diam. with the 175 pellets nicely dispered, but penetration was only 2" in the wetpack (equivalent to maybe 3" gelatin). You're gonna haveta get closer to the snake than 6' to kill it with this pitiful round. (Do you want to get closer!!)

    Draw your own conclusions from the photo, but if you want to mess with .22magnum, I recommend you get a rifle chambered for it that would be good for varmints.

    og
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  7. #26
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    24 - .25 is not \"dead\", yet!!

    Article 24 .25 is not "dead", yet!!
    hi, marshall,
    yup! anybody that want to do a little study on mouseguns needs to check your site. Thanks for the hard work you did to put it together.
    I got interested in .25's after a little study on what a SNS is, or was.....one explanation:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday-night_special

    and it became apparent to me these things are "banned" and the main "ring of fire" mfg. companies in Kaliforna no longer exist. So it looked like a good collection that might be worth a little more someday. I asked a few of my dealer friends to watch for any .25's that might show up and let me know. The Phoenix Raven was a NIB that one dealer found on a storeroom shelf. The Beretta 950 was from a LEO who had carried it for backup and traded for something larger, it was like new, he never fired it but once. The Baby and Junior came from an Estate sale where they had been kept in a drawer for years and years. A little rust on the outside is all, the guts and bores were mint. I'll re-blue the slide on the Baby sometime. And the Davis derringer is the last one any distributor has, I happened to be at a dealer's store when his best distributor was there and told him I was looking for one. He found one, again hidden away in a storeroom. A few on gunbroker but I don't deal there.

    Don't anyone count the .25acp down and out. With Speer GoldDot JHP, the Raven and Beretta produced expansion everytime. Not great penetration but more reliable expansion than my P-32. FMJ's give fair penetration too. Another picture attached. See what you think? Might still be good for last resort SD in a pinch. Beretta still makes a .25, the Bobcat and Taurus the P-25. Tried a P-25, too many malfunctions to keep.

    But don't misunderstand, I'm not saying .25 is good for primary CCW. Trust my life on a PM9.

    og....have fun!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BALLISTICS SECTION, PART 1-sns_wetpack_1_.jpg  
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