Failure to extract... now failure to feed

[Justang]

I went out shooting last weekend and started having problems with my SU16. I've had great fun with this gun, and it hasent given me a problem until now. I would shoot 3-4 shots and have a Failure to Extract. Then the next round would come in and smash against the casing. I'd take the mag out, and the other ammo, and I would have to pull the bolt back and let it slam forward for the extractor to get the casing. Then I'd pull back and it would eject. So I figured maybe the extractor had some gunk in it.

So, using the owners manual, I took the gun apart and cleaned the extractor. Now I'm getting a failure to feed problem. I pull the bolt back to catch a round and it hits the feed ramp and jams. I can pull the bolt back and let it slam home and get the round in, but then when I eject it the bullet has been marred from the feed ramp.

So... what gives? I'm lost.

I'm using USGI 30rd mags. All that have worked flawlessly before.

[Rifleman]

I just bought a new out of the box SU 16C. I also took it to the range this weekend, loaded one thirty round clip of it with Silver Bear 55HP and it would fail to extract nearly every time. I don't think it was a problem with the extractor since you can visibly see where the extractor broke the lip on the base of the shell. I saw Gander Mountain had some Wolf ammo for sale and was going to try it before contacting Kel-Tec, and was wondering if anyone else had had a similar problem and possible solutions. Thanks!!

[TxCajun]

Try some brass-cased ammo. Many have had varying results with cheap, Russian, steel-cased stuff.

[Rifleman]

Thanks Tx, after reading about some AR users problems with the steel casings a very thorough cleaning that was going to be my next step . I've just never had a problem with Wolf or Silver Bear in any of my other firearms, and was very surprised by this odd perfomance.

[Justang]

Still no idea's huh? I cleaned the gun and took it out same thing. Actually it seems not to like 45gr ammo. 55gr works great, unless it's JHP. The magazines are old, and I don't believe they've ever been rebuilt. I've had these things for years before I knew what they were (military family). So I just ordered Wolff springs, green followers, and new floor plates. I'm gonna give um a good cleaning and refurbishing and see how the gun acts then. If it still has FTextracts I'm going to be sending the gun back to Kel-Tec.

[kage_genin]

Justang,
I'm also thinking it could be the magazines, but just wanted to eliminate any other variables.

It sounds like you need to really let the bolt slam forward for the extractor to latch onto the rim of the shell casing. Is there something that is interfering with the action to cause more friction? Is the gas piston/recoil spring tube assembled correctly (ie locked)? Is there something gumming up the recoil spring inside the tube? Was there some kind of heavy grease used on the recoil spring area?

As for the magazines,
Do your USGI magazines insert easily and drop free?
Are you loading the magazines to the full 30-round capacity?
Do you get the same problem with the original 10-round Kel-Tec magazines?

You reported that the gun seems to like 55gr ammo, and dislike 45grain and 55gr JHP. Are the different types of ammo all US-made brass-cased ammo?

Those are a lot of questions... hope I can help to sort this problem out. If not, KT does reportedly have one of the best Customer Service turnaround times in the business...

[IntheWoods]

Still no idea's huh? I cleaned the gun and took it out same thing. Actually it seems not to like 45gr ammo. 55gr works great, unless it's JHP. The magazines are old, and I don't believe they've ever been rebuilt. I've had these things for years before I knew what they were (military family). So I just ordered Wolff springs, green followers, and new floor plates. I'm gonna give um a good cleaning and refurbishing and see how the gun acts then. If it still has FTextracts I'm going to be sending the gun back to Kel-Tec.

Why are you shooting JHP in a rifle that has a military type feed system?

Like the AR, you're gonna always be better off using brassed cased mil-spec ammo in a rifle like the SU-16.

As well make sure you lube your rifle properly with a good lubricant. Dry bolts, etc.... often don't function well.

As well take your bolt apart and push out the extractor pin. Carefully look at the extractor claw, the small spring, and the spring buffer (which is a very small piece of rubber material that mounts inside the extractor spring). As well, note which way the spring is installed when you take it apart (the flat end of the buffer should rest against the bolt, not the extrator).

If these parts are in good condition, it's most likely something else. This is a very reliable extraction system based upon the AR-15.

That being said the vast majority of failures to function in these type rifles are ammunition or magazine related. The rest are lubricant or cleaning related.