Turning a PLR into a SBR

[vegetius]

Gentlemen and armed Ladies ...

I noticed a post indicating that the SSAR SLide Stock (bump fire stock) could not be used on the SU-16 or PLR-16.

That is not what Nick at KelTec Industries says. As a Kel Tec Armorer for SU-16's and also comparable PLR 16 features he says they are useable, adaptble and several Kel Tec employees have such conversions hot and ready to rock.

My telecom inquiries indicate if you you use the Kel Tec AR stock adaptor kit and install a stock reciever block (I would sugggest a side folding block from Ace Stocks) and then the SSAR ... you would have a side folding Slide Fire Stocked SBR ... (presumng the SSAR will fold with the proper clearances) with of course the proper BATF paperwork for an SBR ... a very Mean Compact little boomer ...

If I had the bucks ... I would go for a PLR -16 in 300 AAC Blackout, Red Lion Fore End, Red Lion Trigger, Vortex Fash Hider, Gem Tech Hush Puppy, AR stock conversion kit, ACE folding Stock Block, a SSAR Bump Fire Stock, Vertical Fore End (convertable to Bi-Pod), Beta C Mag (Presuming the ..556 will take the 300 ACC cartridge, an EO Tech with a 5x magnifier on a flip mount and all mounted on Yankee extended rail, a Veridian Green Laser with a Streamlight TLR1 Tactical LED Weapon Light and a Mod vest with 12 Magpul Mags as part of a Bug Out Stash ... a very compact version of a Heavy Metal PDW ...

I have a similar set up but in .556 with a Magpul Angled Fore end Grip ... no Stock, without the Hush Puppy ... and can attach a QD Bi-Pod ... the Red Lion Fore End is a great addition all by its lonesome ... lotso options ...

As a carry gun a PLR-16 in 300 AAC Blackout with a Magpul angled Fore End Grip and two Magpul 30 round Mags, an EOTech; and all on a single point sling under a suitable XXL or XXXL Tac jacket or a windbreaker ... would be reasonably easy to carry concealed under the strong arm shoulder and brought to firing position in a heartbeat ... if you figure you are going to need more than a G21 or other comparable pistol depending where you are going and what deeds you may need to accomplish ...

I have two G-21's with CT Lasers (older built in the frame versions) ... They are ported, have Harts recoil guide rods, Arredondo Mag Extensions, carry 17 rounds in the Mags and shoot .45 230 grain CorBons with a recoil like a soft 9mm ... but ... if I had the bucks I would go with a double shouder rig stocked with two Kel Tec PMR 30 pistols in .22 Win Mag and about 6 spare mags ... better to have and not need then need and not have ... a couple or three Win Mags to center of mass should do the trick ... and you have 27 rounds left for follow up shots ... without a re-load ... what's not to like?

The balistics on the .22 Win Mag are similar to the Five-seven pistol 5.7×28mm ammunition ... but a whole truck load cheaper to shoot ... and I can say that it is likely once the Kel Tec RMR 30 Rifle is is n the market place ... specialty loads of .22 Win Mag will be developed to increse the energy dump and penetration of this ammo type ... now there is combo ... PMR 30 and RMR 30 .... short and long range reach ...

I'll shut up now ...

Vegetius

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

[rachilders]

Very interesting. It's good that a trained professional sees the advantages of using the PLR-16 as a SBR base platform. I also like the RMR 30 and would SERIOUSLY consider it as a personal/home defense weapon. Even with currently available ammo, the .22WMR is also rated as having similar terminal balistics as the .38 SPL.

[rachilders]

Gentlemen and armed Ladies ...

(snip)...

If I had the bucks ... I would go for a PLR -16 in 300 AAC Blackout, Red Lion Fore End, Red Lion Trigger, Vortex Fash Hider, Gem Tech Hush Puppy, AR stock conversion kit, ACE folding Stock Block, a SSAR Bump Fire Stock, Vertical Fore End (convertable to Bi-Pod), Beta C Mag (Presuming the ..556 will take the 300 ACC cartridge, an EO Tech with a 5x magnifier on a flip mount and all mounted on Yankee extended rail, a Veridian Green Laser with a Streamlight TLR1 Tactical LED Weapon Light and a Mod vest with 12 Magpul Mags as part of a Bug Out Stash ... a very compact version of a Heavy Metal PDW ...

I have a similar set up but in .556 with a Magpul Angled Fore end Grip ... no Stock, without the Hush Puppy ... and can attach a QD Bi-Pod ... the Red Lion Fore End is a great addition all by its lonesome ... lotso options ...

As a carry gun a PLR-16 in 300 AAC Blackout with a Magpul angled Fore End Grip and two Magpul 30 round Mags, an EOTech; and all on a single point sling under a suitable XXL or XXXL Tac jacket or a windbreaker ... would be reasonably easy to carry concealed under the strong arm shoulder and brought to firing position in a heartbeat ... if you figure you are going to need more than a G21 or other comparable pistol depending where you are going and what deeds you may need to accomplish ... (snip)


"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

FYI, the SU-16 AR stock adapter became available at the K-T store website the other day so I ordered one for my PLR/SBR. When it arrives, I'll post a few pix of the gun in all it's incarnations (pistol grip only, folding stock and AR stock). This has become a pet project now and I'm curious to see just how many directions I can take it in. Assuming we survive the coming zombie apocalypse in December, I'm considering a suppressor as my next (and probably final) major purchase and addition to the project, but it will need to wait until the next tax return.

[rachilders]

The SU-16/AR stock adapter arrived today and took about 4 minutes to install. Overall, it's a bit longer than the folding stock when collapsed (OTOH, it's exactly the same when fully extended) and weighs about the same. The folding stock makes the gun easier to store or maneuver in tight spaces, like the interior of a vehicle, but the AR stock w/pistol grip is more comfortable to hold and shoot. If portability is the main concern, the folding stock is the way to go. If ergonomics is what you're after, the AR stock is a better choice. Both butt stocks would really be an asset when shooting the PLR for accuracy and with the proper class III paperwork, would make the PLR/SBR a VERY good choice as a personal defense weapon. Actually, the PLR-16 w/o a stock is still an extremely good choice as a self-defense firearm in my opinion. I attached a photo of my gun with the AR stock, folding stock and pistol grip only as well as one with the gun and many of the "accessories" I have for it.

BTW, I was asked by someone recently why I would spend the money on a "cheap plastic" PLR-16 instead of buying an AR or AK variant for my project. I said because I already owned a PLR and, besides, that's the gun I wanted and everything was available from the manufacturer... meaning made from the start to work properly with no mod's or hand fitting necessary. To me, this was the best of both the other options. Also, since I have an AR as well (S&W M&P), I already had many of the extras - optics, vertical grip and other rail mounted items, 223/5.56 magazines, muzzle brakes, etc - so I didn't need to buy more. The cost of the original gun ($475 in 2006), the two rear stocks, fore-grip and a few other K-T specific items purchased directly from Kel-Tec came to just over $700. That's about the price of most basic, entry level AR's. Plus, I'd still need to go through the class III process and buy the necessary parts to make a standard AR or AK into an 12"-14" SBR, something that would not be as compact or versatile as my 9" PLR. My best guess is it would probably have cost me twice what I spent on the K-T with fewer options for me. It really came down to economics and getting the biggest bang for my bucks.

[Bohogkelly]

Thank you for sharing your process. Your information and pictures were just what i needed. I am going to fill out the paperwork next week. I own a PLR 16 and I want to add the folding stock. I too served in the military, have a CCW permit and I am a reserve police officer. I also own a AR M&P 15. You and I seem to have a few things in common. I have one question for you. How does the AR carry handle sight in with the barrel sight once attached?

[rachilders]

It's a bit late in coming, but here's the reply to your question... not very well. The sight in the handle sits a bit too high for real longer ranger accuracy. You could do some "Kentucky windage" style compensation and be accurate enough for close range self defense purposes, but I have optics - like the red dot in the photos - that are better suited for that purpose. For the front post to be adjusted for any real accuracy the PLR's front sight needs to be taller, like an AR. It can be used as a handle for the PLR since it fit's the PLR rail but I actually got it for an AR. The truth is, I saved a good bit of money on the SBR project because I already had a lot of AR accessories (handle, mags, flash hider, sights, etc) that also fit the PLR.

[cyberjad]

Gentlemen and armed Ladies ...

I noticed a post indicating that the SSAR SLide Stock (bump fire stock) could not be used on the SU-16 or PLR-16.

That is not what Nick at KelTec Industries says. As a Kel Tec Armorer for SU-16's and also comparable PLR 16 features he says they are useable, adaptble and several Kel Tec employees have such conversions hot and ready to rock.

My telecom inquiries indicate if you you use the Kel Tec AR stock adaptor kit and install a stock reciever block (I would sugggest a side folding block from Ace Stocks) and then the SSAR ... you would have a side folding Slide Fire Stocked SBR ... (presumng the SSAR will fold with the proper clearances) with of course the proper BATF paperwork for an SBR ... a very Mean Compact little boomer ...

If I had the bucks ... I would go for a PLR -16 in 300 AAC Blackout, Red Lion Fore End, Red Lion Trigger, Vortex Fash Hider, Gem Tech Hush Puppy, AR stock conversion kit, ACE folding Stock Block, a SSAR Bump Fire Stock, Vertical Fore End (convertable to Bi-Pod), Beta C Mag (Presuming the ..556 will take the 300 ACC cartridge, an EO Tech with a 5x magnifier on a flip mount and all mounted on Yankee extended rail, a Veridian Green Laser with a Streamlight TLR1 Tactical LED Weapon Light and a Mod vest with 12 Magpul Mags as part of a Bug Out Stash ... a very compact version of a Heavy Metal PDW ...

I have a similar set up but in .556 with a Magpul Angled Fore end Grip ... no Stock, without the Hush Puppy ... and can attach a QD Bi-Pod ... the Red Lion Fore End is a great addition all by its lonesome ... lotso options ...

As a carry gun a PLR-16 in 300 AAC Blackout with a Magpul angled Fore End Grip and two Magpul 30 round Mags, an EOTech; and all on a single point sling under a suitable XXL or XXXL Tac jacket or a windbreaker ... would be reasonably easy to carry concealed under the strong arm shoulder and brought to firing position in a heartbeat ... if you figure you are going to need more than a G21 or other comparable pistol depending where you are going and what deeds you may need to accomplish ...

I have two G-21's with CT Lasers (older built in the frame versions) ... They are ported, have Harts recoil guide rods, Arredondo Mag Extensions, carry 17 rounds in the Mags and shoot .45 230 grain CorBons with a recoil like a soft 9mm ... but ... if I had the bucks I would go with a double shouder rig stocked with two Kel Tec PMR 30 pistols in .22 Win Mag and about 6 spare mags ... better to have and not need then need and not have ... a couple or three Win Mags to center of mass should do the trick ... and you have 27 rounds left for follow up shots ... without a re-load ... what's not to like?

The balistics on the .22 Win Mag are similar to the Five-seven pistol 5.7×28mm ammunition ... but a whole truck load cheaper to shoot ... and I can say that it is likely once the Kel Tec RMR 30 Rifle is is n the market place ... specialty loads of .22 Win Mag will be developed to increse the energy dump and penetration of this ammo type ... now there is combo ... PMR 30 and RMR 30 .... short and long range reach ...

I'll shut up now ...

Vegetius

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

So has anyone managed to build one of these with a slide fire yet?

[cyberjad]

Looking at this closer I dont see how a slide fire could possibly work the PLR having the grip built in. Am I missing something?

[magman454]

Vegetius,

I'm going to have to call BS on your post.

Did you watch the video of the installation of the slide fire on an AR? The pistol grip is removed and replaced with a block. The pistol grip on a PLR or SU is not the same as an AR. Installing the block would be difficult at best, and would require that the pistol grip be cut up quite drastically. I haven't looked at my PLR to see if any of the fire controls would be in the way of the installation, but I'll do that tomorrow (Later today, lol.), and get back to you on that.

Also, it would not be possible to use with a folding adapter, as the slide fire stock and pistol grip are a single unit. The pistol grip section rides on the block that replaces the pistol grip on an AR, and would not be able to rotate around it.

If you can find a video of a slide fire on a PLR, SU, or folding stock adapter, I will offer my sincere apologies and send you a few boxes of the ammo of your choice (Except .50 BMG. Let's keep it reasonable, lol.)

[magman454]

I just looked at my PLR. It appears that one could cut the pistol grip itself away from the rest of the grip assembly, and not interfere with the fire controls. However, it would not be a simple process. You would have to cut away enough material from the grip area and the trigger guard to allow the installation of the adapter block. Then it seems that you would have to install some sort of a base or plate to which the adapter block would mount.

The process would take hours if not days to get right, and if you remove too much, you're screwed.

Given that it would be possible, albeit arduous, to install one on a PLR or SU, I'll have to amend my above offer to seeing a video of a slide fire installed on a folding stock.